Spent shell casing situation

[A1Uni]

Why can't you tell us the name of the dealer? You can't play the whole I never got the message card after posting about it on a public forum

I agree with the people saying give the dealer a chance to make it right. For all you know you could call them and tell them how unsatisfied you are and they give you a couple boxes of free ammo or a gift certificate.

I'm glad he hasn't named the dealer as he has not notified said dealer of his dissatisfaction yet. Folks would just pile on while the dealer can't defend his actions.

I think it is interesting that people think nothing at all of naming specific dealers they dislike or with which they have issues while posting from behind an anonymous screen name.

Gonna call somebody, or a specific business out by name, be man enough to put your real name out there too. If buyers have a right to know about potential problem dealers, then dealers have a right to know about potential problem customers.

This opinion DOES NOT apply to the OP as he has so far refrained from naming any specific dealer.

 

[Lou45]

If buyers have a right to know about potential problem dealers, then dealers have a right to know about potential problem customers.

Greg, it never occurred to me about the section I quoted above (of your post) to post as such. There we go, the two way street, good for goose is good for gander kinda' thing.

I had to shoot down and flame a one-time customer (newbie with thirty to fourty some posts) on this forum about 3 years ago when he started attacking me, my business, my integrity, and my high ethical standards. Some of those that read it will definitely remember it. When I got through with this person on this forum, it was a "major crash and burn" for him and it wasn't pretty. Not long afterwards he disappeared from here.

 

[clandestine]

Greg, it never occurred to me about the section I quoted above (of your post) to post as such. There we go, the two way street, good for goose is good for gander kinda' thing.

I had to shoot down and flame a one-time customer (newbie with thirty to fourty some posts) on this forum about 3 years ago when he started attacking me, my business, my integrity, and my high ethical standards. Some of those that read it will definitely remember it. When I got through with this person on this forum, it was a "major crash and burn" for him and it wasn't pretty. Not long afterwards he disappeared from here.

 

[vinjet700]

I see this mentality a lot on here. Give all FFLs a free pass to be an ass because of MDs laws. We are still their customers and they depend on us to stay in business. If this guy was cool, I would help him out without thinking twice about it.

Here are the facts:

-The gun was spotless when I first looked at it
-The gun was filthy when I picked it up(NOT just a single round was fired)
-I have signed and dated paperwork saying that a shell casing was obtained and sent to MSP
-He denies obtaining a shell casing (thus admitting to breaking the law by allowing it out the door)
-He tells me to mail him a shell casing (which seems to clearly be against the law)


This goes beyond a simple mistake IMO.

Maybe it does go beyond a simple mistake but they do happen.
If you never told the FFL there was an issue when you picked it up, shame on you.
Not much you can do now about that now, but morals aside I wouldn't want a visit from MSP or anyone else. Take it and let them get a casing.

What do you want the FFL to do? So far you've said your only contact was one voice mail from the FFL. Have you given them your list of "demands"?

I see this mentality a lot on the internet as well. "I'm outraged and demand satisfaction so I'll post on the internet to build a consensus before handling my s**t".

Right or wrong work it out with FFL and be done with it.



Sent from my PG41200 using Tapatalk 2

 

[A1Uni]

Greg, it never occurred to me about the section I quoted above (of your post) to post as such. There we go, the two way street, good for goose is good for gander kinda' thing.

I had to shoot down and flame a one-time customer (newbie with thirty to fourty some posts) on this forum about 3 years ago when he started attacking me, my business, my integrity, and my high ethical standards. Some of those that read it will definitely remember it. When I got through with this person on this forum, it was a "major crash and burn" for him and it wasn't pretty. Not long afterwards he disappeared from here.

Good riddance to that guy.

Yup, you gotta love the guys who think they can trash talk someone and get off unscathed. Keyboard Warriors......

AGAIN, not aimed at the OP.

 

[Lou45]

Greg, it never occurred to me about the section I quoted above (of your post) to post as such. There we go, the two way street, good for goose is good for gander kinda' thing.

I had to shoot down and flame a one-time customer (newbie with thirty to fourty some posts) on this forum about 3 years ago when he started attacking me, my business, my integrity, and my high ethical standards. Some of those that read it will definitely remember it. When I got through with this person on this forum, it was a "major crash and burn" for him and it wasn't pretty. Not long afterwards he disappeared from here.

If anybody reading this thread happens to remember the incident I'm referring to that occurred in a thread during the April/May 2011 timeframe, feel free to post the link in this thread; I think the person's callsign was benzman.

 

[Publius]

If anybody reading this thread happens to remember the incident I'm referring to that occurred in a thread during the April/May 2011 timeframe, feel free to post the link in this thread; I think the person's callsign was benzman.

I think you are referring to this. If so, proves again you have an amazing memory Lou! It was Apr 2011. His post is #10, your reply #13.

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=54659

 

[Objee]

I'm glad he hasn't named the dealer as he has not notified said dealer of his dissatisfaction yet. Folks would just pile on while the dealer can't defend his actions.

If the dealer is falsifying a govt form (I assume under penalty of perjury) by intending to submit a shell casing he didn't fire, is asking the customer to join him in a conspiracy (mailing the shell casing is an overt act that furthers the conspiracy) even defensible?

 

[BaltimoreBayside]

I bought a new gun, my FFL called me when it arrived. I ordered it online. The gun came WITH a spent shell casing from the mfg, i.e. Springfield.
I picked it up after 7 days.

 

[Mr H]

Not all MFRs provide the casing, which forces the dealer to either be an FFL07, or to arrange with one to obtain the casing.

This is (as I understand it) why BPS doesn't carry Remington handguns in MD.

 

[Evojoeix]

I was in no way encouraging flaming the dealer. What I meant by post the dealer name, is so the dealer could bring in his side of this. Maybe he is on here or knows people on here.

Maybe he wouldn't even post on here anyway considering police can/ do read this forum and I don't think him admitting to something like this can end well

 

[A1Uni]

If the dealer is falsifying a govt form (I assume under penalty of perjury) by intending to submit a shell casing he didn't fire, is asking the customer to join him in a conspiracy (mailing the shell casing is an overt act that furthers the conspiracy) even defensible?

He obviously fired a casing as the OP insists the gun was fired, and apparently fired a lot. Why the original wasn't available who knows. Maybe it simply got mislaid, no big deal, if that happens, you get another.

I never said the OP should mail a casing; I said he should take the gun back so the dealer could get a fresh casing.

This whole thread has gone so far afield....

Whoever was in the right or wrong, the OP should have just taken the gun back, supplied the requested casing, and then addressed his issues with the gun apparently being fired numerous times and delivered dirty.

 

[Mark75H]

He obviously fired a casing as the OP insists the gun was fired, and apparently fired a lot. Why the original wasn't available who knows. Maybe it simply got mislaid, no big deal, if that happens, you get another.

I never said the OP should mail a casing; I said he should take the gun back so the dealer could get a fresh casing.

This whole thread has gone so far afield....

Whoever was in the right or wrong, the OP should have just taken the gun back, supplied the requested casing, and then addressed his issues with the gun apparently being fired numerous times and delivered dirty.

If you weren't an 07 and I drove from the Eastern Shore or western MD to do business with you ... should it be completely on me to take my time to drive back to your shop ... twice ... for this situation? Even as an 07 and one trip ... doesn't the buyer deserve some kind of compensation more than "Thank you I appreciate your business"?

 

[JohnnyE]

He obviously fired a casing as the OP insists the gun was fired, and apparently fired a lot. Why the original wasn't available who knows. Maybe it simply got mislaid, no big deal, if that happens, you get another.

I never said the OP should mail a casing; I said he should take the gun back so the dealer could get a fresh casing.

This whole thread has gone so far afield....

Whoever was in the right or wrong, the OP should have just taken the gun back, supplied the requested casing, and then addressed his issues with the gun apparently being fired numerous times and delivered dirty.

While the dealer does not need to have a problem with the MSP over a casing, (and God knows those yoyo's in Annapolis don't need any more ammunition to use against the firearms community), here is where I am still being the resident SOB: the casing issue may be the OP's only leverage to get a REASONABLE resolution to the numerous firings and dirty delivery issue.

Using the casing as leverage to drive a resolution means the OP may never be able to do business with this dealer again. It depends on his negotiating skills. Such are the perils of taking a hard-edged approach where matters of law are concerned. It is the OP's call, and it is NOT to be taken lightly. At the end of the day, the dealer does not need heat from the MSP.

I would hope that ALL posters on this thread, even those sympathetic with the dealer, would agree that if the numerous firings and dirty delivery issues are true (and the OP raised this issue when he picked up the gun), that the dealer at least owes the OP an apology.

 

[A1Uni]

If you weren't an 07 and I drove from the Eastern Shore or western MD to do business with you ... should it be completely on me to take my time to drive back to your shop ... twice ... for this situation? Even as an 07 and one trip ... doesn't the buyer deserve some kind of compensation more than "Thank you I appreciate your business"?

How else would the dealer get the shell?

I agree about making things right one way or another, and never said any different.

While the dealer does not need to have a problem with the MSP over a casing, (and God knows those yoyo's in Annapolis don't need any more ammunition to use against the firearms community), here is where I am still being the resident SOB: the casing issue may be the OP's only leverage to get a REASONABLE resolution to the numerous firings and dirty delivery issue.

Using the casing as leverage to drive a resolution means the OP may never be able to do business with this dealer again. It depends on his negotiating skills. Such are the perils of taking a hard-edged approach where matters of law are concerned. It is the OP's call, and it is NOT to be taken lightly. At the end of the day, the dealer does not need heat from the MSP.

I would hope that ALL posters on this thread, even those sympathetic with the dealer, would agree that if the numerous firings and dirty delivery issues are true (and the OP raised this issue when he picked up the gun), that the dealer at least owes the OP an apology.

It's not leverage, it's blackmail. The law, silly or not says the casing has to be collected and turned in. You can't pick and choose what laws to ignore or not just to suit your own needs.

Again, I fully agree that the dealer should set things right in an appropriate manner and have repeatedly said so.

MSP won't give ANY heat to the dealer if they call and simply report that they lost or failed to collect the shell and the buyer is refusing to comply with their efforts to collect it. I would guess it is lost since it is clear they did fire the gun.

This, unfortunately is a lose-lose for the buyer with regard to getting jammed up. Hopefully the dealer steps up and makes it better.

My guess is that if the buyer had simply made the trip back without all the hoopla, things would have already been set right.

 

[Right_to_arm_bears]

What do you want the FFL to do? So far you've said your only contact was one voice mail from the FFL. Have you given them your list of "demands"?

I see this mentality a lot on the internet as well. "I'm outraged and demand satisfaction so I'll post on the internet to build a consensus before handling my s**t".

Right or wrong work it out with FFL and be done with it.



Sent from my PG41200 using Tapatalk 2

I came here to see what my options were and to get tips on how to go about it. I have learned a lot from the comments already. If I would have done what the FFL asked without question, I would have been BREAKING THE LAW. I see your mentality a quite a bit on the internet also "I have nothing worthwhile to contribute so let me try to tear down the OP".

 

[Right_to_arm_bears]

I'm glad he hasn't named the dealer as he has not notified said dealer of his dissatisfaction yet. Folks would just pile on while the dealer can't defend his actions.

I think it is interesting that people think nothing at all of naming specific dealers they dislike or with which they have issues while posting from behind an anonymous screen name.

Gonna call somebody, or a specific business out by name, be man enough to put your real name out there too. If buyers have a right to know about potential problem dealers, then dealers have a right to know about potential problem customers.

This opinion DOES NOT apply to the OP as he has so far refrained from naming any specific dealer.

I completely agree. I came here for advice because many posters here know a lot more about Maryland's crazy laws than I do. I wanted to be armed with as much knowledge as possible before responding to the FFL. I would never intentionally bash a FFL if I could avoid it; we are on the same team as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Streetgang]

So what action did you take?

 

[DutchV]

Waste a stamp and be done with this clown. He's the one that's risking his license. Maybe there's some MSP administrative ruling that says it's okay. They change their minds all the time. We're not lawyers, how would we know about a detail like that?

And if the gun was just dirty, but not scratched or damaged, I think I'd write that off. What's he gonna do, give you a box of ammo? Is that even worth the trip? If that's the way he treats customers, well, you aren't the first or last to get bit by him, and word will get around. Write the POS off, and move on. Well, you can (and should) tell all your shooting buddies about it.

I've got a couple folks on my crap list. My goal is getting them out of my life, and not repeating the experience. A stamp and an envelope is a very cheap resolution.

 

[Evojoeix]

Why would your first action be to post on the internet about your situation instead of calling the shop back and talking it out with them? To me that just seems the easier route instead of trying to play lawyer against them with info you gather from an internet forum