Spent Shell Casing Cost

[SB281 Blaster]

Maryland State Police report IBIS 2004 recommending its termination and law repeal. This is a sham that has been going on for 10 years. There is no system in place.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...iYHoDA&usg=AFQjCNFshqubdbgtrhS_9UAwY8rrMgRgCA

Email your delgates and senators today! The vote to repeal the law is happening right now. Do it and let's end this thing.

 

[danb]

wow, i bow to your google fu skills. good sleuthing.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

I read from this at last night’s hearing and provided a copy into the record. Also emailed Senator Astle on the Senate side. His bill is requesting its appeal. Contact the Senators and Delegates on the Judiciary Committees and get this done.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

ITAR makes things so much more fun too. You cannot allow any foreign national (anyone not a US Citizen or holder of a valid legal permanent resident alien card) to handle any export controlled item without your direct supervision and permission. You cannot discuss any export controlled item without reporting it to State and you're supposed to get permission to "export" the information you disclose prior to discussing it. You cannot even think of selling an export controlled item to a foreign national (mildot scopes, EoTechs and the like, most Magpul products, magazines, guns.....). The way ITAR is written State can come down on you for even having those items where a foreign national can see them out of their packaging.

I applied for an 07 last month and spoke our BATFE inspector Gretchen Arlington today. She was just rapping up my application and I had to tell her I have to withdraw it because of ITAR. She confirmed everything. Have to pay it even if you don't make anything. All 07s are being contacted about it. Would not approve my application unless I agreed to pay it. I can not put a lower and upper together without it. This is going to hurt thousands of small businesses across the country. Needs to be addressed at the Federal level to include some exceptions for small shops. Shell casing are going to be really hard to get made when all the 07s go back to 01 FFLs.

 

[jkeys]

I applied for an 07 last month and spoke our BATFE inspector Gretchen Arlington today. She was just rapping up my application and I had to tell her I have to withdraw it because of ITAR. She confirmed everything. Have to pay it even if you don't make anything. All 07s are being contacted about it. Would not approve my application unless I agreed to pay it. I can not put a lower and upper together without it. This is going to hurt thousands of small businesses across the country. Needs to be addressed at the Federal level to include some exceptions for small shops. Shell casing are going to be really hard to get made when all the 07s go back to 01 FFLs.

If you only build prototypes then you don't need to be ITAR registered. In order to sell something you built then you have to register.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

If you only build prototypes then you don't need to be ITAR registered. In order to sell something you built then you have to register.

Thanks for this. I will see if I can get it by BATFE tomorrow. I think there is some sort of R&D exception.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Looks like (4) is the exemption you are referring to. So as long as nothing I build is for sale I should be good to go as a 07 FFL. No production of fired shell casing allowed though.

§ 122.1179 Registration Requirements180
(a) Any person who engages in the United States in the business of manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing defense articles or furnishing defense services, is required to register with the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls under § 122.2. For the purpose of this subchapter, engaging in such a business requires only one occasion of manufacturing or exporting or temporarily importing a defense article or furnishing a defense service. A manufacturer who does not engage in exporting must nevertheless register. (See part 129 of this subchapter for requirements for registration of persons who engage in brokering activities.)
(b) Exemptions. The registration requirements of paragraph (a) of this section do not apply to:
(1) Officers and employees of the U.S. Government acting in an official capacity;
(2) Persons whose pertinent business activity is confined to the production of unclassified technical data only;
(3) Persons all of whose manufacturing and export activities are licensed under the Atomic Energy Act of 1954, as amended; or
(4) Persons who engage in the fabrication of articles solely for experimental or scientific purposes, including research and development.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Just learned in conversation with BATFE this morning that their position is, to be able to get an 07 you must have a letter from State Department stating you are exempt, or pay the fee.

 

[ZeroCool]

I'm going to go ahead and say this now:

If we cant get the spent shell casing requirement repealed then I have little to no hope for any progress in any other area (shall issue, etc...).

This is seriously should be the easiest win for us ever; we are only asking for them to repeal a requirement for a program that has already been de-funded and is no longer in use, for heaven's sake!

The fact that we are forced to put all of this effort on strategy for something that should be a given is just insane...

If they deny this then they are only doing it out of spite and because "they can", meaning we shouldn't expect positive movement on any other front.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

Sent this to Smigiel today,

"Please let me know when HB715 on the shell casing comes out of Chairman Vallario’s draw or how the vote might go... I haven’t brought the real big gun out yet, and hopefully won’t need to, but this can’t go down like HB179 did in 2005. I crunched a couple of numbers last night. Over 1,100,000 NICS checks in Maryland since 2004. Now many of those checks are for multiple guns, but conservatively let’s say half of them are for handguns. So let’s say 500,000 of those NICS checks were for handguns times the average cost to produce a fired shell casing of $35. I get $17,500,000 paid by gun purchasers over the last 10 years for a system not even in place. Thanks for your efforts with ending this and let’s get it done."

I will let the reader come up with your own legal term for the policy, being required by the State of Maryland and enforced by MSP, for a system not even in place.

 

[A1Uni]

I applied for an 07 last month and spoke our BATFE inspector Gretchen Arlington today. She was just rapping up my application and I had to tell her I have to withdraw it because of ITAR. She confirmed everything. Have to pay it even if you don't make anything. All 07s are being contacted about it. Would not approve my application unless I agreed to pay it. I can not put a lower and upper together without it. This is going to hurt thousands of small businesses across the country. Needs to be addressed at the Federal level to include some exceptions for small shops. Shell casing are going to be really hard to get made when all the 07s go back to 01 FFLs.

It is $2500-ish a year, that should not put anyone out of business or cause 07s to switch to 01. The benefits of being an 07 FFL are too great.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

It is $2500-ish a year, that should not put anyone out of business or cause 07s to switch to 01. The benefits of being an of FFL are too great.

Perhaps I exagerate slightly, but there are a lot of 07s that are very small operations. And in my case, starting out small like most, this is a lot of money to pay every year. The big guys can afford it and it keeps the new upstarts out. Similar to here, my request to become an IP is ignored, and I am kept out. But if I am anything, I am persistant.

 

[A1Uni]

You will find that many major firearms distributors will not ship any handgun that does not include a casing to a MD dealer who is not an 07 FFL. That means Sig, FN, CZ, Taurus, Italian Beretta, and many more, so you really need that license in this state if you are just starting out.

In this business it comes down to counting the pennies, so you have to decide what is right for you, but especially for new dealers, the 07 is the way to go. Also, if you are ever considering getting a SOT, if you go the SOT manufacturer route, and have an 07 FFL, you can buy MGs MUCH more easily and most often with no need for a LE sample letter.

 

[clandestine]

ATF will give you the 07 license without ITAR but the next time you are inspected they will want to see paperwork. If you don't have it then they will inform the US State Department about non compliance. I believe the fine is in the tune of 1 million per year for non compliance and possible jail time.

 

[SB281 Blaster]

You will find that many major firearms distributors will not ship any handgun that does not include a casing to a MD dealer who is not an 07 FFL. That means Sig, FN, CZ, Taurus, Italian Beretta, and many more, so you really need that license in this state if you are just starting out.

In this business it comes down to counting the pennies, so you have to decide what is right for you, but especially for new dealers, the 07 is the way to go. Also, if you are ever considering getting a SOT, if you go the SOT manufacturer route, and have an 07 FFL, you can buy MGs MUCH more easily and most often with no need for a LE sample letter.

Yes thank you very much for the advice, that was the other reason I wanted the 07, ATF is serious about complying with ITAR, and it is not something I can afford to do right now and it stinks.

 

[Mr H]

Sent this to Smigiel today,

"Please let me know when HB715 on the shell casing comes out of Chairman Vallario’s draw or how the vote might go... I haven’t brought the real big gun out yet, and hopefully won’t need to, but this can’t go down like HB179 did in 2005. I crunched a couple of numbers last night. Over 1,100,000 NICS checks in Maryland since 2004. Now many of those checks are for multiple guns, but conservatively let’s say half of them are for handguns. So let’s say 500,000 of those NICS checks were for handguns times the average cost to produce a fired shell casing of $35. I get $17,500,000 paid by gun purchasers over the last 10 years for a system not even in place. Thanks for your efforts with ending this and let’s get it done."

I will let the reader come up with your own legal term for the policy, being required by the State of Maryland and enforced by MSP, for a system not even in place.

See the bold, above...

Does that number ring a bell???

 

[Not_an_outlaw]

See the bold, above...

Does that number ring a bell???

10% of that number rings a bell! (Simmons - bonehead)

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

I'm going to go ahead and say this now:

If we cant get the spent shell casing requirement repealed then I have little to no hope for any progress in any other area (shall issue, etc...).

This is seriously should be the easiest win for us ever; we are only asking for them to repeal a requirement for a program that has already been de-funded and is no longer in use, for heaven's sake!

The fact that we are forced to put all of this effort on strategy for something that should be a given is just insane...

If they deny this then they are only doing it out of spite and because "they can", meaning we shouldn't expect positive movement on any other front.

^^^^ THIS ^^^^. And the internal safety lock requirement.

They repealed the DEATH PENALTY and can't repeal these two things that are a complete waste of money and one is even long defunct???

 

[Mr H]

I'm going to go ahead and say this now:

If we cant get the spent shell casing requirement repealed then I have little to no hope for any progress in any other area (shall issue, etc...).

This is seriously should be the easiest win for us ever; we are only asking for them to repeal a requirement for a program that has already been de-funded and is no longer in use, for heaven's sake!

The fact that we are forced to put all of this effort on strategy for something that should be a given is just insane...

If they deny this then they are only doing it out of spite and because "they can", meaning we shouldn't expect positive movement on any other front.

Somehow I missed this earlier...

You are, of course, 100% correct.

But, on the other side of the coin, should they "give us this one," by no means does it indicate ground gained overall.

This is a very easy 'bone' to throw to use as a distraction.

To the staffers reading this, you need to remind your bosses that this is a cohesive community, even outside the forum. Word will get around, and we will be more focused than ever.

Every piece of evidence suggests we are on the right side of the debate, and the GA is fighting a rising tide.

[turning off my signature now, so that there's no mistaking that this comes from me, personally, and is related to none of my affiliations]

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

Somehow I missed this earlier...

You are, of course, 100% correct.

But, on the other side of the coin, should they "give us this one," by no means does it indicate ground gained overall.

This is a very easy 'bone' to throw to use as a distraction.

To the staffers reading this, you need to remind your bosses that this is a cohesive community, even outside the forum. Word will get around, and we will be more focused than ever.

Every piece of evidence suggests we are on the right side of the debate, and the GA is fighting a rising tide.

[turning off my signature now, so that there's no mistaking that this comes from me, personally, and is related to none of my affiliations]

They wouldn't give on the diminutive credits last year, the only potential element of the law that would have addressed crime, even had to pull antics to rig a re-vote. Because they couldn't afford to keep people in jail. This year, an election year, suddenly, they're tough on crime.