Sorry to Ask Again but FREAKING out

[stringer bell]

Neurotic much? You're over thinking this, big time.

plus 1

you really need to get out of guns if you are truly concerned with possessing mags.

 

[eruby]

It is just me or is this thread going on and on and on starting to smell trolly?

He did join in May 2013 so it could be a sleeper cell.

Though he does have a pic of slab bacon on his profile page.

 

[Rack&Roll]

Yes, but in Mathfish post #54 the word CLIP suddenly appeared. Hmmm.

Some people can only hold their breath for so long….

 

[Mr H]

He did join in May 2013 so it could be a sleeper cell.

Though he does have a pic of slab bacon on his profile page.

Yeah... I was holding out for some, to be honest.

 

[fabsroman]

^^^ this times 1000.

It is not necessarily a question of whether the law was broken, but what documentation you need to keep to ensure that the transaction can be characterized appropriately much later when memories have faded. You do not want to get into a he-said she-said.

And, you might at least request that the mods delete this thread.

The state needs to prove that he purchased the mag while he was in Maryland. How the heck can the state prove that if he chooses to remain silent (obviously putting this thread itself aside) ? If the State meets its burden of proving that he purchased the mag while he was in Maryland, then the burden shifts to him to show that he did not. Of course, this is at trial. The OP would probably hang himself in the first interview he has with law enforcement.

I am not advocating that anybody break the law because the State has the burden of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt. However, don't get on an internet forum after making a legal purchase and try to prove to the world that you broke the law, are now a criminal, etc.

Now, if the OP had ordered a mag, and just a mag, over the internet while sitting at his computer in Maryland and had it shipped out of state for him to pick it up, then he would have "purchased" the mag while in Maryland. Could probably argue against the purchase taking place in Maryland, but it would be a tough argument and likely one that would require a crapload of legal research and probably end up in the appeal process.

 

[fabsroman]

Yes, but in Mathfish post #54 the word CLIP suddenly appeared. Hmmm.

Some people can only hold their breath for so long….

You guys need to keep in mind that there are a lot of new gun owners in Maryland as a result of SB281. I think SNI is a prime example. Most of them have no idea how to even use a gun, but because some guns were going to be banned and a license would be required to purchase others, people ran out and bought their first guns. My sisters have been shooting since they were kids, but never bought a gun until summer 2013. One bought more than a single one. Same goes for one of my brother in-laws. He had been shooting with me, but bought his first gun in summer 2013. I doubt my sisters would get their panties in a bunch if somebody used clip versus mag. They don't even know the difference. Yet, we would run them off this board as being trolls. Some of us on here are uber into guns, which is just fine since I am one of them. Meanwhile, a lot of them are NOOBS. Take it easy on some of these people, because SB281 probably resulted in more people becoming gun owners in Maryland than any other event in Maryland's history. Embrace it. Get them into the cause. Help them out. Just do NOT alienate them, because the long time gun owners in Maryland by themselves have not been enough to change things in Maryland. We need more NOOBS and more numbers to make changes in Maryland.

I'll meet with the OP in person if he wants a free consult and in return is willing to join MSI or the NRA for a year. Thing is, I think this horse has been beaten to death and he doesn't really need a meeting anymore.

Let's not forget, some people have called me a troll on this forum. Believe Brooklyn was one of them. I find it highly laughable that I was labeled as a troll by some. Just trying to put a stop to us eating our own on this forum and elsewhere.

Rant over.

 

[Rack&Roll]

All right…hold the phone. Here is a rundown of the OP's posts, which he says occur while he is at the hospital where a new daughter has just been born. Remember, this post is drawing members into a "neurotic" discussion of mag possession laws.

Is this what you would doing with your wife in labor?

Mathfish starts posting at 8:31pm and at 10:06pm (95 minutes later) he announces his daughter has just been born. All the posts below are during that 95 minutes.

TODAY, in his last post at 10:47am, he writes a long post and NOT A THING about having a new baby or about being a new father.

I smell a very dirty diaper.

8:31 YESTERDAY:

I know you have all fielded this question before, even from myself so I am very sorry to ask again but I really need a sanity check so I do not go crazy. Quickly here is the back-story:

Before the new gun laws came into affect, I ordered an AR15 and asked them twice to remove the 30 round magazine. They said yes both times but didn't. The FFL said he could ship the magazine to someone I knew in VA and I could pick it up legally. I was worried that was not right and I asked the board here and everyone said it was legal. I read the law and it seemed consistent with what everyone was saying. So that is what I did and drove it back to PG county.

Fast forward some months and the lawyer at my gun club at work was going over the new gun laws and he got to the section on detachable magazines and he mentioned it was illegal to go to another state and buy magazine and transport it back. He pointed to the word "transfer" in the line " A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine ...."

So I freak out. My job depends on me being in good legal standing. But on this board and on other sites it says it is legal. To me the context of the magazine part of the law is on possession. So transfer must mean transfer possession not just movement of something. If hypothetically it did mean movement and not change of ownership of a magazine greater than 10 rounds, because it doesn't say "transfer into the state" or something similar, then it would make it illegal to flat out move your magazine. To your car, to the gun range, out of the safe, whatever. Which is crazy. So it has to mean transfer as in ownership. So I don't see how it could be illegal but I am bothered that he was a lawyer from a gun club who said it was illegal. So it is really bothering me that there is some "other" law that he knew about or a county law or something. Or that "transfer" really does mean "movement". I don't want to pay a lot of money that I don't have to consult a lawyer but I don't want to keep on worrying about this and it really is keeping me up at nights. Maybe I'm just more sensitive than most but I am just going around in circles wondering if I broke the law and what to do next.

I really could use some help and something pretty conclusive that I can lean on. I'm freaking out just a little. Thank you!!

9:15pm YESTERDAY:

So this is what worries me. It seems like there are many people who say no problem but one says maybe not so fast.

But the FFL did not offer for sale. I bought an AR online and had an FFL in MD doing the transfer work. So the gun store shipped the gun to the FFL and the magazine arrived at the FFL with the AR that I ordered online, even though I asked them not to send it. It came from a gun store in some other state and the FFL was doing the transfer process and he shipped it to VA.

At any rate, a poster mentioned that the Maryland State Police Department answered this question at a meeting. I think I need to just call them and ask. I cannot take this if it is subjective and relative. I am just trying to do the right thing. Heck I even hammered the magazine to pieces after the gun club lawyer said that it was illegal. . . .

9:50pm YESTERDAY

So what was Mr H talking about with essentially saying maybe?

9:43pm YESTERDAY:

And the FFL in MD didn't sell the AR to me. I bought it from a FFL out of state. The in state FFL just received the box of the AR and the unfortunate 30 round mag. He only did paper work.

Finally, if I did want to talk to a lawyer about this, how could I find a recommended one apart from a google search?

9:50pm YESTERDAY

thanks all for the replies. This is what I need and why I did it originally because it seemed 100% legal.

But again I worry about why someone who is "in the know" says otherwise.

For example, not to flame Mr. H. I am sure he knows his stuff but his post seemed to be more of a "I am not so sure this is legal".

He is not on but that little doubt is enough to keep this door open and make me wonder.

10:06pm YESTERDAY

I will have to look. I am at the hospital right now. My daughter was just born.

I think the stress of this is actually because of that. Fearing losing my job with a new girl . . .

10:15pm YESTERDAY

I think so too, maybe I'll send out a post on that.

I can see what Mr H is getting at.

10:47am TODAY

Thank you all for the responses and encouragement. I REALLY appreciate it.

Just to summarize where I am. I do feel regarding "transfer" with regards to buying a magazine across state lines and bringing it back is ok.

What some members pointed out is that it not quite exactly that. I contacted an online gun company, I think it was clyde armory, and ordered an AR15. I told them to remove the 30 round clip twice and twice they said no problem. The price for the AR was unchanged regardless of the clip being there or not. But they forgot or whatever and it came. So it got shipped to VA and I picked it up there. What other members pointed out is that I may have "bought the magazine" in Maryland because I bought the rifle and the magazine came with it. I have to check my receipt but in that case I am afraid that I technically bought a magazine while in MD because I did it online from my place of residence. That is what I am afraid of. From my perspective I did not buy it. It just showed up in the box but I just don't know since it seems this is kind of gray.

 

[pwoolford]

I hope the OP never drifts over the speed limit while driving to work!

 

[fabsroman]

I hope the OP never drifts over the speed limit while driving to work!

lol - I was thinking the same thing when writing one of my posts.

 

[Bullfrog]

All right…hold the phone. Here is a rundown of the OP's posts, which he says occur while he is at the hospital where a new daughter has just been born.

Is this what you would doing with your wife in labor?

Mathfish starts posting at 8:31pm and at 10:06pm (95 minutes later) he announces his daughter has just been born. All the posts below are during that 95 minutes.

TODAY, in his last post at 10:47am, he writes a long post and NOT A THING about having a new baby or about being a new father.

I smell a very dirty diaper.

It's possible. 'Just born' could mean earlier that day, or even the day before, I don't think he specified (correct me if I'm wrong). Babies and new moms do a lot of sleeping.

I've taken my wife & kids to ERs many times over the years. It's usually controlled urgency until you get checked in, then they're in a bed on pain meds or asthma treatment or whatever is indicated... and snoozing since they are finally comfortable. I'm guilty of sitting by their bedside browsing MDS or other forums many times in those situations, and I typically don't share my personal/family details on the forum unless they are relevant to a discussion.

 

[danb]

The state needs to prove that he purchased the mag while he was in Maryland. How the heck can the state prove that if he chooses to remain silent (obviously putting this thread itself aside) ? If the State meets its burden of proving that he purchased the mag while he was in Maryland, then the burden shifts to him to show that he did not. Of course, this is at trial. The OP would probably hang himself in the first interview he has with law enforcement.

I am not advocating that anybody break the law because the State has the burden of proof, beyond a reasonable doubt. However, don't get on an internet forum after making a legal purchase and try to prove to the world that you broke the law, are now a criminal, etc.

Now, if the OP had ordered a mag, and just a mag, over the internet while sitting at his computer in Maryland and had it shipped out of state for him to pick it up, then he would have "purchased" the mag while in Maryland. Could probably argue against the purchase taking place in Maryland, but it would be a tough argument and likely one that would require a crapload of legal research and probably end up in the appeal process.

My heartburn is the part where the mag is in MD, at a MD FFL (with rifle), and the MD FFL ships it out of state so the MD resident can pick it up (as I understand the particulars from the thread, and also this one: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=2479729#post2479729 ). As Mr H said: what, where, when. Even if the mag is free, surplus, or a gift, I don't think I can go to a MD dealer and say, hey those surplus free 30 rnd mags sitting in the corner that you got in by accident, can you gift me one via my friend in VA? Or, maybe I can.

Of course, the whole thing is very confusing to me. I think I'd have to see the ad for the rifle and any fine print disclaimers, to feel good about whether the price of the package included the mag, or not. I bought a rifle over the internet, the dealer was very particular about making it clear which mag I got. The worst case scenario is someone takes an interest and there is a lot of of confusing and inaccurate info they posted ("but you said..") during the stress of having a child. Legal, not legal, questionable, just exercise your 5th amendment right to STFU.


Of course, my biggest heartburn would be that my wife found I was posting on the internet while she was in labor or while she was trying to rest after having a baby. I could survive jail, but not the ramifications of that.

 

[fabsroman]

My heartburn is the part where the mag is in MD, at a MD FFL (with rifle), and the MD FFL ships it out of state so the MD resident can pick it up (as I understand the particulars from the thread, and also this one: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?p=2479729#post2479729 ). As Mr H said: what, where, when. Even if the mag is free, surplus, or a gift, I don't think I can go to a MD dealer and say, hey those surplus free 30 rnd mags sitting in the corner that you got in by accident, can you gift me one via my friend in VA? Or, maybe I can.

Of course, the whole thing is very confusing to me. I think I'd have to see the ad for the rifle and any fine print disclaimers, to feel good about whether the price of the package included the mag, or not. I bought a rifle over the internet, the dealer was very particular about making it clear which mag I got. The worst case scenario is someone takes an interest and there is a lot of of confusing and inaccurate info they posted ("but you said..") during the stress of having a child. Legal, not legal, questionable, just exercise your 5th amendment right to STFU.


Of course, my biggest heartburn would be that my wife found I was posting on the internet while she was in labor or while she was trying to rest after having a baby. I could survive jail, but not the ramifications of that.

If I were to do that while my wife is in labor, the ramification would be death.

Yes, the OP's situation is a cluster screw up, and he is only making it worse by writing about it on the internet.

Thing is, if there is communication between he and the seller wherein he specifically says "Do NOT send the 11+ round mag with the gun" or he said "Don't send a mag with the gun", I think there is some wiggle room regarding his "purchase" of the mag. If the seller includes the mag as a freebie and the FFL sends it to somebody out of state for free, that person out of state takes legal title to it, and then transfers it to the OP out of state, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Don't think there is a clear answer to this question.

 

[Scottysan]

Of course, my biggest heartburn would be that my wife found I was posting on the internet while she was in labor or while she was trying to rest after having a baby. I could survive jail, but not the ramifications of that.

Yeah, THIS!
Might stand a pretty good chance of getting beaten unconscious with that questionable magazine!
Fortunately, we'd already be at the hospital!

More shooting, less talking!

 

[danb]

If I were to do that while my wife is in labor, the ramification would be death.

I'd welcome death, compared to the purgatory I'd be living.

 

[rseymorejr]

Deja Vu, all over again
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=121820

 

[Rack&Roll]

Yeah, THIS!
Might stand a pretty good chance of getting beaten unconscious with that questionable magazine!
Fortunately, we'd already be at the hospital!

More shooting, less talking!

You missed the part where this "dad-to-be" smashed the scary mag into pieces with a hammer.

That's…just….too….emotional….for someone purchasing an AR online, don't you think?

 

[RobSky]

Frosh test case

 

[ShallNotInfringe]

You guys need to keep in mind that there are a lot of new gun owners in Maryland as a result of SB281. I think SNI is a prime example. Most of them have no idea how to even use a gun, but because some guns were going to be banned and a license would be required to purchase others, people ran out and bought their first guns. My sisters have been shooting since they were kids, but never bought a gun until summer 2013. One bought more than a single one. Same goes for one of my brother in-laws. He had been shooting with me, but bought his first gun in summer 2013. I doubt my sisters would get their panties in a bunch if somebody used clip versus mag. They don't even know the difference. Yet, we would run them off this board as being trolls. Some of us on here are uber into guns, which is just fine since I am one of them. Meanwhile, a lot of them are NOOBS. Take it easy on some of these people, because SB281 probably resulted in more people becoming gun owners in Maryland than any other event in Maryland's history. Embrace it. Get them into the cause. Help them out. Just do NOT alienate them, because the long time gun owners in Maryland by themselves have not been enough to change things in Maryland. We need more NOOBS and more numbers to make changes in Maryland.

I'll meet with the OP in person if he wants a free consult and in return is willing to join MSI or the NRA for a year. Thing is, I think this horse has been beaten to death and he doesn't really need a meeting anymore.

Let's not forget, some people have called me a troll on this forum. Believe Brooklyn was one of them. I find it highly laughable that I was labeled as a troll by some. Just trying to put a stop to us eating our own on this forum and elsewhere.

Rant over.

Just a cotton pickin' minute here buster! I have never mistaken a clip for a magazine. (And indeed I own both). And I most certainly know how to use a gun. I may be considered. a newbie (if a year and a half still leaves me in that category...) but I learn quick and went/go to professionals for all of my training. I took gun ownership seriously and believe the right comes with learning how to responsibly exercise that right. Along with studying all of the laws and regulations associated with it.

So don't be using me a as prime example of people who don't know how to use guns or ignorance of the difference between clips and mags. Oh maybe it's because I asked for a tutorial of using your shotgun??? Seems like good sense to ask a person who lends you something to get a quick walk around. Knobology is always a little different, better to ask than make mistakes when we are talking about firearms.

 

[Brooklyn]

You guys need to keep in mind that there are a lot of new gun owners in Maryland as a result of SB281. I think SNI is a prime example. Most of them have no idea how to even use a gun, but because some guns were going to be banned and a license would be required to purchase others, people ran out and bought their first guns. My sisters have been shooting since they were kids, but never bought a gun until summer 2013. One bought more than a single one. Same goes for one of my brother in-laws. He had been shooting with me, but bought his first gun in summer 2013. I doubt my sisters would get their panties in a bunch if somebody used clip versus mag. They don't even know the difference. Yet, we would run them off this board as being trolls. Some of us on here are uber into guns, which is just fine since I am one of them. Meanwhile, a lot of them are NOOBS. Take it easy on some of these people, because SB281 probably resulted in more people becoming gun owners in Maryland than any other event in Maryland's history. Embrace it. Get them into the cause. Help them out. Just do NOT alienate them, because the long time gun owners in Maryland by themselves have not been enough to change things in Maryland. We need more NOOBS and more numbers to make changes in Maryland.

I'll meet with the OP in person if he wants a free consult and in return is willing to join MSI or the NRA for a year. Thing is, I think this horse has been beaten to death and he doesn't really need a meeting anymore.

Let's not forget, some people have called me a troll on this forum. Believe Brooklyn was one of them. I find it highly laughable that I was labeled as a troll by some. Just trying to put a stop to us eating our own on this forum and elsewhere.

Rant over.

Ha but you called me a troll first . Anyway you can be a troll on one issue and still be an ally on others.... ;

Anyway you turned out to be a lawyer so my spiddy sense was just off only a little bit.
.

All in jest fabs... all in jest...

 

[5.56blaster]

10 grams or less is only a ticket now. Relax!