Re: Kolbe v O'Malley... AR/AK "Common Use"

[Mr H]

As I mentioned before, I understand the point, and disagree completely.

We know how America feels about this issue. Maryland is a problem because our leaders flat refuse to accept the Constitution, and go out of their way to infringe our rights for a flawed ideological goal.

The poll is a direct result of a specific Court ruling which, as I mentioned in the OP (and detailed in the Kolbe v O'Malley thread), purposefully disregarded facts and evidence to come to the conclusion that these firearms are not "commonly possessed for lawful purposes". This one specific item is what I'm addressing.

No, MDS is not the ideal cross-section of Maryland as a whole, but I find it to be pretty representative of the majority of firearms owners. Non-owners, by definition, are generally not interested in this subject, and are sometimes at odds with our goals. So, this UNSCIENTIFIC poll is a snapshot of a known segment of the state, for their opinions on a state issue, as regards the decision on state law.

I don't think I can be much clearer as to the methodology here. Disagree if you like, but you can always start your own poll.

MSI is Maryland Shall Issue... one the most active 2A advocacy groups in the state.

https://marylandshallissue.com

 

[smokey]

smokey, what is the benefit (to you/your wife) of the angled fore grip over a vertical fore grip?

I had a vertical grip on it(a knockoff grip-pod), and didn't much like it. If you grab the vertical grip, it puts your hand under the weight of the barre/forend. When going left/right, it causes that weight to want to roll over and twist a bit. It was also less intuitive for point-shooting. Think of sporting clays, your support hand is an important spatial link between your brain and the target.

Over time, my support hand started sliding higher and higher up the grip until I was really only using the vertical grip as a hand-stop, with my hand up high on the rail, with my thumb parallel to the bore. For this, just naturally point your thumb at what you want to shoot and it lines the gun up pretty well. It also reduces the flopping-over feeling by sticking your hand up where the weight is instead of under it for side-to-side transitions.

I ended up yanking the vert grip and giving the AFG a try. It was instant like. It feels like your hand is just stuck to the barrel and gives you a much better sense of control. Imagine how much better control you'd have over a fire-hose if your hand was up around the nozzle instead of down under it with your wrist flexed back.

It also put your hand in good position to operate the controls on a light. You can either toss one at 12 o'clock if it fits well under your optic's plane of view, or down at 6. Your thumb is right there to activate a pressure pad or, in my case, the controls for the tlr series lights. With the tlr1 or 3, it gives you ambi-controlability. I like the 6 oclock position because it reduces the chance of splashing back light when shooting around to the left or to the right of a barricade. When shooting over something, I know the barrel is clear if I can see the light down on the target.

I ended up liking the setup enough to use it for my shotgun too. Regardless of if I gram my 870 or my AR, they will have the same feel and controls for the light. The locations for sling mounts are even the same and I can use my MS3 on either just fine(although I need the QD adapter for the 870 to clip onto).





It's important to not that this setup works for me for the time being, but may not be great for everyone. If you shoot fine with a vertical grip, there's nothing wrong with using it. I will say though that the AFG gives you a LOT of control over the pump on the 870...although it can beat your index finger when shooting slugs from a bench.

 

[dblas]

You MSI guys sure do take a heap of crap for your posts here. Unbelievable.

Your one of the easiest people on the board to get along with too.

And it always comes from folks that are fair-weather supporters.

 

[dblas]

It's a Maryland question, to [primarily] Maryland owners, regarding a decision about Maryland law.

I think you want to also ask those living in Free America. These are obviously going to be in less common use in MD than in, for example, North Dakota or Montana. Mainly because your laws over the last 20 years have slowed the flow of plastic rifles into your homes, but also due to the urban/suburban makeup of the eastern two-thirds of the state. Just because the AR platform might not be the first choice for a 6-2 body builder living in a Baltimore rowhouse doesn't mean it wouldn't be a good choice for a 5-4, 140 pound woman living in the sticks outside of Accident. As mentioned above, we shouldn't be thinking "Home Invasion" when a mus-guided judge seems to think that the second amendment is solely for "home defense". The lady in Accident may need to protect kids in an outbuilding, stock or property in the yard, or other items/persons on her property. The poll should also include common usage in Free America, where people have been allowed to choose the best platform for their own needs.

In my own case, my 16 year old son sneers at the AR, and thinks the world begins and ends with .308 now that he's outgrown his .243 for hunting. My wife is recoil shy and my younger daughter doesn't have the arm length to deal with the LOP on our hunting rifles. An AR (with a collapsible stock in the daughter's case) is the preferred vermin dispatcher when the men-folk aren't around. When my wife was more fit and before my daughter was of age to shoot, we had no use for an AR in our defense plan, but things change.


BTW, what is "MSI"?

https://marylandshallissue.com

Feel free to join.

 

[TxAggie]

Let me be perfectly clear about something. The 2A wasn't intended to allow you to simply protect your home as defines by domicile, but as in homeland/ country. To provide for security (not just defense) of a free state.

I will deploy my firearms to maintain security of myself, my family, community, and country.

One cannot secure a modern day state with spitballs.

 

[foxtrapper]

My primary are 2 pistols and the AR is a secondary for an extreme case. I would rather use the PS90 for home defense if it came to that level of need, but after such a shooting I may never see my PS90 again, and living in MD means I cannot just buy another one. I can buy HBARS all day every day still however.

I suppose I should go buy some frangible rounds for the AR now...

The point is almost moot however, as other's have pointed out. Barring a natural disaster event with looters, or if you live in or have a business in the Hood. It's one little facet on the FULL RETARD judge's ruling, and irrelevant to the true meaning of the 2A.

 

[Bolts Rock]

I will say I have "several" AR's. Two dedicated Service Rifles and a dedicated Match Rifle upper that are far too heavy/cumbersome for HD. I also have a couple configured as "make liberals we their pants tacticool zombie slayers" that I would not hesitate to use for HD. HD primaries are an 18" barreled 870 and a 1911 because I have practiced with them on the range at HD distances, with and without corrective glasses and KNOW what I can and cannot do with them.

 

[GUNSnROTORS]

Keep an AR, shotgun, and (2) handguns handy for HD. Selection depends on time and scenario. For a threat not yet in the house, will sling the AR.

 

[srephwed]

people (legislators) who know nothing about guns should not be making gun laws.get out and vote and tell your friends also.it is our only hope

 

[fred333]

people (legislators) who know nothing about guns should not be making gun laws.get out and vote and tell your friends also.it is our only hope

I'll see you that and raise you this: People who know nothing about anything should not be allowed to vote.

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” --Winston Churchill

 

[DC-W]

I'll see you that and raise you this: People who know nothing about anything should not be allowed to vote.

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.” --Winston Churchill

And such a thing doesn't belong in a free society.

 

[Coffee]

And such a thing doesn't belong in a free society.

Quite agree. If you have citizenship, you should have a say, no matter how dumb. Otherwise, you end up with a ruling class.

And, smart does not equal sensible. I imagine many of our politicians are smart. Sensible? LOL.

 

[crowleycr]

Radical Judges

I don't recall seeing the term common use in the 2nd amendment. These radicals shouldn't be allowed to frame the argument. What is the threshold for common? Her arguments are rejected by the people. Some might say "No laws are to be obeyed that are in opposition to the constitution." Just saying, Don't get your panties in an uproar.

 

[abean4187]

I keep my glasses, ear muffs, a fully loaded AR-15 with flashlight, and extra magazine by my bed. I consider the AR-15 to be the perfect home defense weapon.

It’s light, almost anyone can use it, and the .223/5.56 round is perfect for home defense. The bullets are light so over penetration isn’t as big of an issue but they still have a ton of stopping power. The only downside is the noise level but with the ear muffs I have some protection. I like to think of it as a bonus, if I don’t kill the intruder I will at least destroy his hearing.

 

[abean4187]

Quite agree. If you have citizenship, you should have a say, no matter how dumb. Otherwise, you end up with a ruling class.

And, smart does not equal sensible. I imagine many of our politicians are smart. Sensible? LOL.

Our problem is that people vote on things that they should not be allowed to vote on. Sorry, you don’t get to vote on my rights. You don’t get to vote on my guns, my body, who I marry, etc.

Government should exist to protect rights. The only thing the population should be voting on are issues like, “Is our military big/small enough”, “Is our court system adequate”, “Is our police force efficient enough.”

We need a complete overhaul of the mentality of this country. I doubt that is going to happen though as long as both parties run on the platform of “We give you free stuff, you give us votes.”

 

[teratos]

Our problem is that people vote on things that they should not be allowed to vote on. Sorry, you don’t get to vote on my rights. You don’t get to vote on my guns, my body, who I marry, etc.

Government should exist to protect rights. The only thing the population should be voting on are issues like, “Is our military big/small enough”, “Is our court system adequate”, “Is our police force efficient enough.”

We need a complete overhaul of the mentality of this country. I doubt that is going to happen though as long as both parties run on the platform of “We give you free stuff, you give us votes.”

Agreed. Nobody should ever vote on a Right. They are not up for discussion.


Government never protects Rights, unless it suits the needs of the government. Eric Holder is more than happy to launch investigations into a police officer in Missouri who shot a kid, but won't investigate the IRS, or the New Black Panthers intimidating people at polling sites. The Framers knew this. It's why they wrote the Constitution the way they did. As long as we have arms, we have teeth. We cannot allow that Right to be ignored.

 

[Mr H]

So far, just under 18% of poll respondents do not include AR or AK platform firearms in their plan.

This is actually less than I expected!

Honestly, I only expected about 70-75% of us to include these in our HD scenarios (and I thought that might have been high).

I'm very interested to see how this plays out, now!

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Agreed. Nobody should ever vote on a Right. They are not up for discussion.


Government never protects Rights, unless it suits the needs of the government. Eric Holder is more than happy to launch investigations into a police officer in Missouri who shot a kid, but won't investigate the IRS, or the New Black Panthers intimidating people at polling sites. The Framers knew this. It's why they wrote the Constitution the way they did. As long as we have arms, we have teeth. We cannot allow that Right to be ignored.

Well...it's full well being ignored. So to are 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, and 10!

I hate to say it, but I think we desperately need the states to Article 5 Con-Con. There is honestly no other way at this point, to have the Article 1-3 branches reign themselves in.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

So far, just under 18% of poll respondents do not include AR or AK platform firearms in their plan.

This is actually less than I expected!

Honestly, I only expected about 70-75% of us to include these in our HD scenarios (and I thought that might have been high).

I'm very interested to see how this plays out, now!

The demographics of MDS are mostly outliers as it is, so this doesn't shock me at all. Especially after last year when people went and bought just so they could, knowing they may never ever get another chance and at best it would be 4~5 years before they could again.

 

[Mr H]

The demographics of MDS are mostly outliers as it is, so this doesn't shock me at all. Especially after last year when people went and bought just so they could, knowing they may never ever get another chance and at best it would be 4~5 years before they could again.

I probably underestimated that aspect, true...

But I still find it enlightening.