Pulled Over by MSP/Guns in Car

[lsw]

I don't think anyone wants to take anything away from vets or retired LEOs; the question is, do we want a society where only vets & retired officers are allowed to carry? Or the way things are headed, a society where only active & retired LEO or military can even own firearms or some subset of firearms?

 

[aquashooter]

My friend moved to TN about 6 years ago when he retired from Safeway. TN is a shall issue state. However any time a LEO pulls over a driver, he knows whether or not the driver might be armed. TN designates right on the driver's permit if there is a carry permit issued.

 

[MaxVO2]

I seriously doubt the cracked windshield for the stop.

More than likely a license plate scanner showed he was a gun owner.

Technology is neutral; it can be used for good; it can be used for evil.

Of late, it's use is more evil than good

*****I live in MoCo (very unfriendly territory for gun owners in general..) and transport some of my guns to the range during the week and on some weekends to a private club with over 1500 members, many of whom have *lots* of guns and transport them to the club to shoot. I have never been pulled over on my way to the range, or going back home, etc... even though I drive by a police station, and often have police cars directly behind me on my way home as they leave the station or are coming back, etc..

I treat the police sort of like bumble bees in that if I don't give them reason to pay attention to me, I don't get stung or harassed in any way. The club I shoot at is a pretty close knit community and I have never heard of anyone being pulled over for merely being a gun owner or harassed for having gun in the car properly stored, etc..

Any technology can be abused for sure - license plate readers and gun databases are no exception. The police in my experience have better things to do than harass law abiding citizens who happen to own firearms, and who have to jump through all sorts of hoops (the HQL, training, wait period, etc..) to even purchase a regulated firearm. If pulling people over for merely owning a legal firearm was even remotely true, the police would have little time to do anything else as there are a LOT of gun owners in Maryland.

Anyway, my .02

 

[TimG]

I also have a MD carry since I was a DC officer living in MD. ( And yes, I made numerous off-duty arrests.) I have to renew every 3 years and that includes a full background investigation, including finger printing which I pay for. Military retirees are also exempt from HQL. All military vets are exempt from the training requirement. Did you want to take away the benefits from all the Vets and retirees also?[/QUOTE

Well, let me propose this to you. A highly decorated special ops vet, who is honorably discharged after 8,10,14 years is required to have HQL. The officer who supervised from a desk for the past 5 years of a 20 year career and fully retires is exempt from the HQL. Which vet would you think is better versed on firearms? As a member of a Navel officers family I wish not to take any Benifits away from our veterans, but I wish all law abiding citizens were afforded theirs.

 

[whistlersmother]

I also have a MD carry since I was a DC officer living in MD. ( And yes, I made numerous off-duty arrests.) I have to renew every 3 years and that includes a full background investigation, including finger printing which I pay for. Military retirees are also exempt from HQL. All military vets are exempt from the training requirement. Did you want to take away the benefits from all the Vets and retirees also?

No one is suggesting removing any benefits. I am suggesting that those benefits be EXTENDED to include law abiding civilians.

FWIW, they are less infringed than us mere little people. Why not have everyone at the same "less infringed" level?

 

[T'Challa]

Just read the first post. They did not do much wrong but they were fishing. PC was the brkon window. They should have written the repair order and sent you on your way. They help you for 30 minutes.... 20 mins too long in my book.

 

[teratos]

I also have a MD carry since I was a DC officer living in MD. ( And yes, I made numerous off-duty arrests.) I have to renew every 3 years and that includes a full background investigation, including finger printing which I pay for. Military retirees are also exempt from HQL. All military vets are exempt from the training requirement. Did you want to take away the benefits from all the Vets and retirees also?

I do. Just because you are a vet doesn't mean you are a good citizen. Why should some people be more equal than I am? You think it is a good idea, you apply it to everyone. A lot of vets I know haven't the foggiest idea what to do with a gun.

 

[highwayheat]

Since I've been on this forum I've honestly helped people attempt to understand what we can/can't do regardless of their beliefs of right or wrong. I've provided court cases in an attempt to help people better understand their actual rights and not what they see on law and order or how they feel but after the first quote I'm done. Good luck folks because that whole "I know my rights" comment doesn't fly when your wrong.

Amen brother. I'm starting to feel the same way. If most people would have a chance to meet me or probably the few LEO's on MDS in person I'm sure they would feel foolish for most of the comments they post about LEO's on here. Some people's minds are closed as tight as a steel trap and they choose to remain ignorant to fact we are trying to help, We are gun owners too and do not want to see any law abiding gun owner get jammed up over something stupid.

 

[Brooklyn]

I seriously doubt the cracked windshield for the stop.

More than likely a license plate scanner showed he was a gun owner.

Technology is neutral; it can be used for good; it can be used for evil.

Of late, it's use is more evil than good

Hold it . Backup a minute

I have no doubt that the windshield was the reason for the stop.. And my comment here was based on a misunderstanding of the OP 's post specifically

At one point I had 3 cars and 5 cops behind me. Finally after 30 minutes Trooper one walks up and gives me an ERO for the windshield and explains with the guns in the car he just wanted to make sure they were REGISTERED to me.

To me this made it sound like more than it was, as Op later explained. I am of the opinion that msp is asking about guns as matter of routine, which based on my prior experience appears to be new.. I know others have been asked ..

But that's it -- I have no reason to believe that MSP is going dragnet on us.

Now in this case a gun case was in plain sight so we can not say for sure that is not just what it appears to be.

I am concerned that MSP, with no other reason to think otherwise, though it necessary to

to make sure they were REGISTERED to me.

especially given the state of the MSP database.

It bears watching -- but lets not go tin foil happy ok.. ( that's my job )

 

[clandestine]

If license plate scanners targeted gun owners I would be pulled over every day. I pass about 30 cops a day traveling in my personal vehicle.

 

[traveller]

And you know this because you use license plate readers?

The database isn't linked.

What is it linked to ? Open warrants to the registrant, bolos etc ?

 

[Ragnar]

Using the OP's example, what would have transpired differently if he had simply said to the troopers that he respectfully prefers not to answer any questions? As it is, he was detained for 30 minutes while they did whatever they did. They had no cause to search his car or detain him any further. If he did not answer the questions they asked, would the troopers have taken any different actions than they did?

I am really not trying to bait the LEOs who are good enough to share their experience and perspective with us. I am genuinely just trying to think ahead to if I am ever stopped. Talking to cops makes me nervous even though I'm likely not going to be doing anything wrong, and I'd really prefer to just not answer any questions posed by someone I don't know, LEO or otherwise.

 

[gulfwarsubvet]

I do. Just because you are a vet doesn't mean you are a good citizen. Why should some people be more equal than I am? You think it is a good idea, you apply it to everyone. A lot of vets I know haven't the foggiest idea what to do with a gun.

You're dead on with this. The vast majority of Navy folks (probably 95%) either never fired a gun during their career, or if they did...it was a .22 or simulator in Boot Camp. Exceptions are SEALs, SWCC, EOD, Pararescue, Master at Arms folks, Gunners Mates, submarine folks and maybe some exceptions for temporary security/guard duty or select shore billets. I heard that the Navy doesn't even drill with rifles in Boot Camp anymore. Not as familiar with the Air Force, but I'm guessing they probably have a similar percentage. The whole blanket military retiree exemption doesn't sit too well with regular vets, who had to be qualified an proficient with firearms as a part of their job. I know a bunch of recent USMC and Army vets that have done multiple tours overseas recently, that have a real hard spot with this exemption too. The point is not removing rights from anyone NOW. The point is that every person that had an exemption carved out, when this piece of garbage was passed, was one less person we had with a vested interest in ensuring it didn't get passed in the first place.

 

[SS396]

Just read the first post. They did not do much wrong but they were fishing. PC was the brkon window. They should have written the repair order and sent you on your way. They help you for 30 minutes.... 20 mins too long in my book.

I don't think it's "fishing" when the firearms are seen in plain view. It's simply what the officers were presented with when they approached the vehicle. There's a difference between a "fishing expedition" and digging a little deeper to see what you've got. As we all discuss this here in this forum, we all know the OP is probably a decent guy and not someone who just stole the guns in a burglary. The officers on the side of the highway however, are going to need a little time and digging to determine this.

Imagine for a minute all of your guns are stolen next week when your house is burglarized. Will you want the officers to dig a little to see if the guy they've pulled over is connected to them legally? I'm confident most here would be happy with a little digging and inconvenience on the side of the road. I suspect the officers would be super heroes for recovering the guns. This won't happen if we can't use our noses to sniff around a little.

It is necessary and completely acceptable for the police to scrutinize you under certain circumstances. It's not a violation of your rights. I can't think of very many big arrests I've had of major offenders that didn't require me to dig deep and look beyond the surface. Once again many fail to slow down a think about it from different perspectives. The citizens of this country gave us the authority to police them; unlike many other places in the world. We're accountable to the public and that's how it should be. We're not trying to hunt down all the good people - rest easy.

 

[ma_deuce]

I have a secret strategy that's never let me down. Never drive over 80, no matter the speed limit, and go everywhere in my Nissan Rogue disguised as a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair and a suit. No one ever suspects fat middle-aged white guys in Nissan Rogues with gray hair in suits. I did get pulled over one time in Howard County. HoCo cop walks up to my Nissan Rogue, looks in my window, sees a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair in a suit, says "sorry sir, just a little mix-up", and tells me to have a nice day. True story. Works like a charm.

 

[Rack&Roll]

If license plate scanners targeted gun owners I would be pulled over every day. I pass about 30 cops a day traveling in my personal vehicle.

So….you pass 30 cops a day? You must be the last homeowner on that that urban warfare street in Quantico...

By the way, congrats on 24K posts….

Question about pick-ups with gun racks in MD. Doesn't the "legality" of open carry of long guns, as suggested by Lil Dougie Gansler, make such activity legal? (Even if people are too freaked out to do it?)

 

[Mark75H]

What is it linked to ? Open warrants to the registrant, bolos etc ?

Mostly registration violations ... suspended or expired tags, no insurance confirmation

 

[traveller]

I have a secret strategy that's never let me down. Never drive over 80, no matter the speed limit, and go everywhere in my Nissan Rogue disguised as a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair and a suit. No one ever suspects fat middle-aged white guys in Nissan Rogues with gray hair in suits. I did get pulled over one time in Howard County. HoCo cop walks up to my Nissan Rogue, looks in my window, sees a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair in a suit, says "sorry sir, just a little mix-up", and tells me to have a nice day. True story. Works like a charm.

I have the grey hair going. Booster-seats, legos and unicorns strewn across the back of the car also do a good job to further my disguise. Oh, and I check my brake-light bulbs whenever I have something reflective behind me (like a cromed up pickup).

 

[Ragnar]

I have a secret strategy that's never let me down. Never drive over 80, no matter the speed limit, and go everywhere in my Nissan Rogue disguised as a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair and a suit. No one ever suspects fat middle-aged white guys in Nissan Rogues with gray hair in suits. I did get pulled over one time in Howard County. HoCo cop walks up to my Nissan Rogue, looks in my window, sees a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair in a suit, says "sorry sir, just a little mix-up", and tells me to have a nice day. True story. Works like a charm.

Well, I certainly have the disguise down. I guess I could commit murder and no one would ever suspect me.

 

[SS396]

I have the grey hair going. Booster-seats, legos and unicorns strewn across the back of the car also do a good job to further my disguise. Oh, and I check my brake-light bulbs whenever I have something reflective behind me (like a cromed up pickup).

Now that you guys have found the secret, I hope you'll keep it under your hats. We won't be able to target good guys any more; we'll only have the bad ones to mess with.