Pulled Over by MSP/Guns in Car

[aquashooter]

Just read the first post. They did not do much wrong but they were fishing. PC was the brkon window. They should have written the repair order and sent you on your way. They help you for 30 minutes.... 20 mins too long in my book.

I wrote very few real tickets. But I used trivial infractions to justify warrant checks. These checks often led to arrests from narcotics to armed robbery and homicide. I had illegally parked cars and permit checks even lead to interstate prison escapees.

 

[Threeband]

I seriously doubt the cracked windshield for the stop.

More than likely a license plate scanner showed he was a gun owner.

Technology is neutral; it can be used for good; it can be used for evil.

Of late, it's use is more evil than good

Oh, Rubbish.

 

[rwbow1969]

I wrote very few real tickets. But I used trivial infractions to justify warrant checks. These checks often led to arrests from narcotics to armed robbery and homicide. I had illegally parked cars and permit checks even lead to interstate prison escapees.

You did your job.

 

[rwbow1969]

If license plate scanners targeted gun owners I would be pulled over every day. I pass about 30 cops a day traveling in my personal vehicle.

I sometimes go a whole week without seeing an LEO.

That does not include having a beer with one at the Legion....

 

[rico903]

This is interesting. I have always found it odd that the exercise of your 2A Right could somehow translate into suspension of your 4A Right.....



I didn't want to violate HIPAA.


The irony. See a crack, find more crack.

I assume he means drugs.

 

[Biggfoot44]

Re scanners - don't forget that favorite , overdue Emmisions test.

But meanwhile at that "Plain View " . It was somthing in Plain View that was not illegal, nor being used in an illegal manner. It get it if the items in question had been actual contraband, but cased long guns are not presumpivly illegal. ( Insert various recent court cases that possesion of firearms of manner and type that are gennerally legal in that jurisdiction are NOT reasonable suspicion absent specific signs of other criminal activity/ intent.)

 

[rico903]

I didn't take the time to read this whole thread but I'll weigh in on a couple of things.
1)As far as LEOSA I have absolutely no problem with this vs the HQL thing others are bitching about . If someone gives 20+ years of their life to an inherently dangerous job, having under gone a serious back ground check to get it and has to qualify every year for 8 hours, I see no problem. Just the fact that a retired LEO could run into a criminal they put away in the past is a safety issue they should be able to defend them selves against. Also think Shall Issue should be law as we all should be able to defend ourselves.
2) bad cops, yeah they are definitely out there. Guess that is why Internal Affairs exists as big as a PITA as they can be to the good cops. As far as bad cops go, my friend RD( I think he is even though we disagree on some things) both know a retired city cop serving time for murder. He was a bar customer of mine, RD knew him professionally, but he always dreamed of being a "wise guy" originally from NYC. Pulled a gun on someone in a dispute one time and made the news. Next time in argument he killed an unarmed person. He probably made up 1% of retired LEOs. You read about it from time to time, but in the big picture, I'd be happy to live next to most retired LEOs I know, except 1/2 of them never carry????
3) cops are human, had many for bar customers over the years, only a few jerks who couldn't separate work from pleasure. Get drunk and drive, yeah. Speed like crazy when I was in their personal vehicle with them, yeah. But I'm guessing times have changed since those days, I hope.
4) I run into LEOs in gun shops all the time and they don't like the BS laws they have to enforce but it's part of the job. They don't however go looking for confrontation. Now I can't defend the anti gun ones who think there ought to be more laws.

Now those who lie just to search a vehicle or home or lean on drivers or people at home to make them squirm and try to get them to consent, I don't agree with those tactics.

 

[teratos]

I don't think it's "fishing" when the firearms are seen in plain view

Fair enough. Let's go a little further. What if the firearms AREN'T registered to him, or they can't find a record of it? OP had a shotgun. Most likely not in the database. It's not regulated. Gratuitous loans are perfectly legal. What if he borrowed a handgun from a friend to try it out? I have lent handguns to friends in the past. Now what?

 

[Skins_Brew]

You're dead on with this. The vast majority of Navy folks (probably 95%) either never fired a gun during their career, or if they did...it was a .22 or simulator in Boot Camp. Exceptions are SEALs, SWCC, EOD, Pararescue, Master at Arms folks, Gunners Mates, submarine folks and maybe some exceptions for temporary security/guard duty or select shore billets. I heard that the Navy doesn't even drill with rifles in Boot Camp anymore. Not as familiar with the Air Force, but I'm guessing they probably have a similar percentage. The whole blanket military retiree exemption doesn't sit too well with regular vets, who had to be qualified an proficient with firearms as a part of their job. I know a bunch of recent USMC and Army vets that have done multiple tours overseas recently, that have a real hard spot with this exemption too. The point is not removing rights from anyone NOW. The point is that every person that had an exemption carved out, when this piece of garbage was passed, was one less person we had with a vested interest in ensuring it didn't get passed in the first place.

Not entirely true. Navy folks stationed on surface combatants routinely qualify on a variety of small arms. 9MM, M16, 12ga, 50cal, etc. If you are a top sider on a DDG, CG, FFG, or the like, you are probably standing some type of security watch that requires those quals.

At one point, I was qualified to shoot all the above, plus Tomahawk Missiles.

 

[Second Amendment]

I have a secret strategy that's never let me down. Never drive over 80, no matter the speed limit, and go everywhere in my Nissan Rogue disguised as a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair and a suit. No one ever suspects fat middle-aged white guys in Nissan Rogues with gray hair in suits. I did get pulled over one time in Howard County. HoCo cop walks up to my Nissan Rogue, looks in my window, sees a fat middle-aged white guy with gray hair in a suit, says "sorry sir, just a little mix-up", and tells me to have a nice day. True story. Works like a charm.

Thanks, I'll remain an in shape middle aged white guy.

 

[joppaj]

Thanks, I'll remain an in shape middle aged white guy.

He's in shape. Round is a shape.

 

[Second Amendment]

Fair enough. Let's go a little further. What if the firearms AREN'T registered to him, or they can't find a record of it? OP had a shotgun. Most likely not in the database. It's not regulated. Gratuitous loans are perfectly legal. What if he borrowed a handgun from a friend to try it out? I have lent handguns to friends in the past. Now what?

Really. I've taken my brother's gun to the range. Mine, or anyone elses, they are not transported in plain sight. I don't speed anyway, but I'm extra careful when driving to or from the range.

 

[ericoak]

Fair enough. Let's go a little further. What if the firearms AREN'T registered to him, or they can't find a record of it? OP had a shotgun. Most likely not in the database. It's not regulated. Gratuitous loans are perfectly legal. What if he borrowed a handgun from a friend to try it out? I have lent handguns to friends in the past. Now what?

I'd go further and say there are roughly 300 million legally owned guns in this country, what reason does an officer have to think it isn't legal? Especially if it is left in plain view. People generally hide illegal items.

Georgia state law says the same thing.

 

[kmittleman]

Not entirely true. Navy folks stationed on surface combatants routinely qualify on a variety of small arms. 9MM, M16, 12ga, 50cal, etc. If you are a top sider on a DDG, CG, FFG, or the like, you are probably standing some type of security watch that requires those quals.

At one point, I was qualified to shoot all the above, plus Tomahawk Missiles.

 

[Doctor_M]

At one point, I was qualified to shoot all the above, plus Tomahawk Missiles.

Funny thing... the other day I was driving down the road with a Tomahawk on my back seat, in plain view, when I got pulled over by MSP. The officer poked his head in and said, "Have a nice day, Sir".

 

[Traveler]

He's in shape. Round is a shape.

I heard it was more of a pear shape. You know, weebles wobble but ....

 

[SS396]

Fair enough. Let's go a little further. What if the firearms AREN'T registered to him, or they can't find a record of it? OP had a shotgun. Most likely not in the database. It's not regulated. Gratuitous loans are perfectly legal. What if he borrowed a handgun from a friend to try it out? I have lent handguns to friends in the past. Now what?

Good question. There are any one of several hundred ways a scenario can play out; it's difficult to cover all of them in an internet forum. To answer the question though, in the absence of anything that would call for more scrutiny (and this could be any number of suspicious things), the scenario you mention would result in him being told to have a nice day and drive away with the guns. If you've got nothing, then fine. You did your job by digging a little. Or, if it starts to snow ball (again, this could happen any number of ways - too difficult to list all here), then you go with it to see where it leads. Oftentimes we know the person is involved in criminal activity, but we've just got nothing to hold him on. What do we do? We acknowledge his constitutional rights and let him go; we'll get him later.

This is how the bad people are caught guys; they don't make it easy on us. Many of them do everything they can to look just like you. The same might happen if the back seat is full of car stereo equipment or boxes of pharmaceuticals. Could it be a Best Buy salesman or the local pharmacist? Of course, but any decent officer is at least going to give it some scrutiny. There's definitely a balance between enforcing laws and protecting individual liberty. It will always be debated (I hope) and should be. Unfortunately though, some don't even try to think beyond the limited information at hand and consider the full scope of what is being discussed.

 

[ericoak]

Good question. There are any one of several hundred ways a scenario can play out; it's difficult to cover all of them in an internet forum. To answer the question though, in the absence of anything that would call for more scrutiny (and this could be any number of suspicious things), the scenario you mention would result in him being told to have a nice day and drive away with the guns. If you've got nothing, then fine. You did your job by digging a little. Or, if it starts to snow ball (again, this could happen any number of ways - too difficult to list all here), then you go with it to see where it leads. Oftentimes we know the person is involved in criminal activity, but we've just got nothing to hold him on. What do we do? We acknowledge his constitutional rights and let him go; we'll get him later.

This is how the bad people are caught guys; they don't make it easy on us. Many of them do everything they can to look just like you. The same might happen if the back seat is full of car stereo equipment or boxes of pharmaceuticals. Could it be a Best Buy salesman or the local pharmacist? Of course, but any decent officer is at least going to give it some scrutiny. There's definitely a balance between enforcing laws and protecting individual liberty. It will always be debated (I hope) and should be. Unfortunately though, some don't even try to think beyond the limited information at hand and consider the full scope of what is being discussed.

What you do if the driver told you it was none of your business when you inquired about the firearms?

 

[Brooklyn]

Good question. There are any one of several hundred ways a scenario can play out; it's difficult to cover all of them in an internet forum. To answer the question though, in the absence of anything that would call for more scrutiny (and this could be any number of suspicious things), the scenario you mention would result in him being told to have a nice day and drive away with the guns. If you've got nothing, then fine. You did your job by digging a little. Or, if it starts to snow ball (again, this could happen any number of ways - too difficult to list all here), then you go with it to see where it leads. Oftentimes we know the person is involved in criminal activity, but we've just got nothing to hold him on. What do we do? We acknowledge his constitutional rights and let him go; we'll get him later.

This is how the bad people are caught guys; they don't make it easy on us. Many of them do everything they can to look just like you. The same might happen if the back seat is full of car stereo equipment or boxes of pharmaceuticals. Could it be a Best Buy salesman or the local pharmacist? Of course, but any decent officer is at least going to give it some scrutiny. There's definitely a balance between enforcing laws and protecting individual liberty. It will always be debated (I hope) and should be. Unfortunately though, some don't even try to think beyond the limited information at hand and consider the full scope of what is being discussed.

Just because we are sceptical does not mean we are not listening.. and far more read than post...

We do not deny that police methods work, or even that they are necessary, the question is how far is too far... now I know the courts are cute at times.. and thus its better to ask about guns all the time rather than risk being accused of profiling. ...so a little of this concern is about the courts as well.

If you have reasonable suspicion then as far as I am concerned you should look into it. Is a gun case in plan sight, absent other indications, reasonable suspicion of wrong doing? Let's assume its broad daylight.. there is only on case... and the driver is cooperative. What reasonable suspicion is there to justify " making sure the guns are registered to you ".

 

[aquashooter]

Not entirely true. Navy folks stationed on surface combatants routinely qualify on a variety of small arms. 9MM, M16, 12ga, 50cal, etc. If you are a top sider on a DDG, CG, FFG, or the like, you are probably standing some type of security watch that requires those quals.

At one point, I was qualified to shoot all the above, plus Tomahawk Missiles.

How do you conceal carry a Tomahawk? Or were you just happy yo see her?