PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

[Abuck]

PA's fee is set by statute; $20/5years. Counties can add a reasonable fee for the photograph, if they are the ones who take the picture.

There had been an extra $5 fee in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 to cover the cost of equipment upgrades, including the photo gear. That $5 fee has expired, so by law the total permit cost is now $20/5 years. Several counties were exposed as adding fees, such as charging to laminate the permit, but the law does not support the extra fees.

It is al WELL documented in this thread.

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-op...rged-ltcf-its-time-act-updates-page-23-a.html

 

[Merlin]

I think there is not a state in the union that makes real coin from the permit process. Florida is the perennial favorite for claims that the state just is a permit mill, but I don't think they make anything from it. I know most states lose in the process, which is why the eventually make the process easier.

Maryland has something similar: the state regulated arms/handgun training course. The law stipulates it is free, so they did not go with extensive (ie: expensive) processes because it would be a big loser. This last session it was clear they wanted to allow cost, and the only reason to do that would be to force more process on us.

It is 'starving the beast' in a way. This is yet another reason why we need to fight against fees so hard.

But what if MD goes to a system like PA but keeps the $75 (and most likely will go higher) Then don't you think they will make money?

Remember we are still paying the troopers pay checks either way.

Like when they talk about how much the war costs. Guess what, when we do not have a war going on we still pay and feed the troops. They still train with the same equipment they were using when at war. When the war stops these bill are a constant.

Much like the MSP. We are paying them when they are processing an application or sitting at the doughnut shop.

 

[Merlin]

Which leads to an interesting question in these tough times: If the state wished to continue the full background interviews, including references, who is going to pay for them?

Our fees are statutorily defined. That $75 doesn't last an hour in the government. Assuming a full set of interviews/chasing down references takes 2 hours per app, then an additional 1 hour labor in processing, the state is out about $150 per head.

This upcoming special session is going to be interesting. We expect another attack based on fees.

Depending on how we do in that fight might determine how hard it is to get a permit, not only in terms of cost but also in terms of steps. If we starve the process of cash, the state may have no choice but to reduce the more ridiculous efforts we go through and get us closer to other Shall-Issue states.

Increased costs will result in fewer people with permits and a disproportionate hit on the poor. It's right out of the Bloomberg playbook.

I'm not sure if that right Patrick. You know Maryland does not like to ask it's people for more money.

 

[teratos]

But what if MD goes to a system like PA but keeps the $75 (and most likely will go higher) Then don't you think they will make money?

Remember we are still paying the troopers pay checks either way.

Like when they talk about how much the war costs. Guess what, when we do not have a war going on we still pay and feed the troops. They still train with the same equipment they were using when at war. When the war stops these bill are a constant.

Much like the MSP. We are paying them when they are processing an application or sitting at the doughnut shop.

I think MD believes they are going to keep the current system in place. This means you need a trooper to call 3 references, the spouse, and interview each and every applicant personally. If MD goes "shall-issue" this is going to take a LOT of man power. They would have to hire a bunch of extra troopers. Of course, it is completely pointless. If one of your references says you are a little unstable and they deny you, not only do you have poor judgement in picking your friends, but you also have grounds for a lawsuit. Keep in mind, with a fundamental right the burden is on the State to prove that there is harm done by you having a permit, and those grounds need to be very narrowly defined. If you have a clean criminal background and no history of psychiatric illness, there are no grounds for your denial. This is going to be fun.....

Once the entire Country is "shall issue", I think one of the next things that will be attacked is permits. You don't need a State issued permit to exercise your freedom of speech, you shouldn't need one for any other right......

 

[Mark75H]

Much like the MSP. We are paying them when they are processing an application or sitting at the doughnut shop.

That assumes no staff cut backs or furlough days

 

[Merlin]

I think MD believes they are going to keep the current system in place. This means you need a trooper to call 3 references, the spouse, and interview each and every applicant personally. If MD goes "shall-issue" this is going to take a LOT of man power. They would have to hire a bunch of extra troopers. Of course, it is completely pointless. If one of your references says you are a little unstable and they deny you, not only do you have poor judgement in picking your friends, but you also have grounds for a lawsuit. Keep in mind, with a fundamental right the burden is on the State to prove that there is harm done by you having a permit, and those grounds need to be very narrowly defined. If you have a clean criminal background and no history of psychiatric illness, there are no grounds for your denial. This is going to be fun.....

Once the entire Country is "shall issue", I think one of the next things that will be attacked is permits. You don't need a State issued permit to exercise your freedom of speech, you shouldn't need one for any other right......

What kills me is the fact that you have to go through it all over again as if it's you first time. I could see going through everything if it's the first time. But I think that each renewal you will have to do the live scan references, bla, bla, bla.

If I rob a bank in CA and leave one fingerprint at the bank, the LEO's will be at my door before I will get home to MD. Why is it necessary to pay some live scan contractor $75 every renewal?

 

[teratos]

What kills me is the fact that you have to go through it all over again as if it's you first time. I could see going through everything if it's the first time. But I think that each renewal you will have to do the live scan references, bla, bla, bla.

If I rob a bank in CA and leave one fingerprint at the bank, the LEO's will be at my door before I will get home to MD. Why is it necessary to pay some live scan contractor $75 every renewal?

It's dumb. For the renewal I did the application like the first time, but they did not call my references, wife, or myself. Got my yellow card in about 8 weeks.

 

[Merlin]

I think MD believes they are going to keep the current system in place. This means you need a trooper to call 3 references, the spouse, and interview each and every applicant personally. If MD goes "shall-issue" this is going to take a LOT of man power. They would have to hire a bunch of extra troopers. Of course, it is completely pointless. If one of your references says you are a little unstable and they deny you, not only do you have poor judgement in picking your friends, but you also have grounds for a lawsuit. Keep in mind, with a fundamental right the burden is on the State to prove that there is harm done by you having a permit, and those grounds need to be very narrowly defined. If you have a clean criminal background and no history of psychiatric illness, there are no grounds for your denial. This is going to be fun.....

Once the entire Country is "shall issue", I think one of the next things that will be attacked is permits. You don't need a State issued permit to exercise your freedom of speech, you shouldn't need one for any other right......

Well I have always thought if any state knows how to get money out of it's people it's Maryland. But sometimes MD is a slow learner. Like the gambling. years and years of watching MD money going to support every state around us before they broke down and approved gambling here.

You may like gambling, or you may hate gambling, but it is a money generator. And if we can have a lottery, like ccw's, we should be able to gamble everywhere in MD.

If MD looses I can see them figuring out how they can make money with it. Maybe in the form of a special tax or fees going up, or what ever. I'm very surprised that some of these states do not require CCW holders to have some kind of insurance. I can see MD now figuring out a fee schedule. Charging out of state ccw's a fee to make them good in MD. Another fee for using your ccw with in 100 miles from your house. Another fee for more then 100 miles.

Custom designer ccw cards like the plates on our cars with fancy designs on them Fee, fee, fee. Maryland will show them how it's done.

 

[Merlin]

It's dumb. For the renewal I did the application like the first time, but they did not call my references, wife, or myself. Got my yellow card in about 8 weeks.

What state?

 

[BUFF7MM]

What state?

Look at his avatar.

 

[Merlin]

Look at his avatar.

I tried but I can't make it out.

 

[teratos]

What state?

MD.

 

[BUFF7MM]

I tried but I can't make it out.

That's because it's a unicorn, it's mythical in this state and most people have never seen one, but hopefully not for long.

 

[teratos]

That's because it's a unicorn, it's mythical in this state and most people have never seen one, but hopefully not for long.

Unicorn. That is so true. It's funny that the first MD permit I ever saw was my own. One of my patients is a State Trooper. He clued me in to the fact that I could get one, even brought me the application.

My 10 year old has my expired one in his wallet. He can now conceal a nerf gun. He looks enough like me, just younger. I bet he is the only 10 year old you know that has a MD CCW.

 

[Drmsparks]

Why is it necessary to pay some live scan contractor $75 every renewal?

Because they contribute to the right politicians campaigns?

 

[BUFF7MM]

.

My 10 year old has my expired one in his wallet. He can now conceal a nerf gun. He looks enough like me, just younger. I bet he is the only 10 year old you know that has a MD CCW.

Besides you he's the only other person of any age that I know of any age who has one.

 

[Merlin]

MD.

OK so who better to know how MD works when you renew. So it was not the big deal that I thought it is?

 

[Merlin]

Because they contribute to the right politicians campaigns?

Ho I'm sure truer words were never spoken.

 

[Merlin]

95% of the work for a permit is done based on the finger print/CJIS report. The last 5 % is the actual making of the permit. MD chooses to add in the interviews and all of the other useless crap. I mean come on, who would provide a reference that would not work for them? Please--stupid.

Va. does it on the cheap with a simple plan piece of paper/hard stock card that you must have a photo ID with, unlike other states that have a "drivers license" type permit that is a hard card style with a picture. Making those cards cost money, but they could tool up the drivers license type machines to do it. Hell where I work (like alot of places) makes ID's with chips embedded for security reasons. It isn't that hard, they CHOOSE TO MAKE IT HARD AND EXPENSIVE.

Like alot of you have eluded too, Md does the way they do to try and preclude folks from having permits.

it isn't about Money, that illness is placed on us with the fees for the check. Florida figured it out. It is an administrative process and they gave it to the Dept of Ag so as not to burden the LEO branches.

Your right. You could be a drug kingpin and you would tell your boys to talk you up when the MSP called.

 

[CypherPunk]

1000+ permit applicants could meet in Pikesville one Saturday, invite the media, wave our non-denial-denials and demand our civil rights.