PERMIT APPLICATION RETURNED

[gmhowell]

They got my app on 3/23 and immediately did the md background check which cleared immediately. Not a peep since. Never checked to see if they cashed it or not. I assume they did so cuz they did the background check

Are the appeal for these sorts of things open to public like most court hearings? Could be interesting to attend if someone gets in front of the board. Then again, I like watching court cases (when my ex-wife isn't sitting on the other side of the aisle, that is).

 

[Glaug-Eldare]

It ain't much but I just joined MSI. Sorry it took so long. SIck 'em.

Thank you, and welcome aboard!

 

[dlmcbm]

I like the change. 10 days to do a board appeal. Can't tell or advise others what to do here

Did I miss something here?? I am guessing that I did. Please do tell.

 

[jfox]

Posts by esqappelate may be the best to heed. He is a lawyer but is not offering legal advice. That said, he can read and digest this stuff faster than the rest.

It looks like you have three choices:

1. Grin and take it
2. Send it back to MSP to process
3. Take it to the appeals board

Would strongly recommend keeping it alive, make them give you a permit or a written denial, via the rights you have under law should you act within 10 days. In other words, file a written request for a hearing within the next 10 days, make sure it is received with delivery confirmation, and be sure to include your app, check, and copy of the letter so they can't play the we don't have it game.

 

[gmhowell]

I like the change. 10 days to do a board appeal. Can't tell or advise others what to do here

I wrote a substantial college paper on Orwell. Same semester I had to read "Metamorphosis" and "The Trial". Both Orwell and Kafka (and Huxley and others) have lessons to teach.

And having been through a multi-state divorce, I found Kafka has much more to teach about the legal process than the surprisingly competent Big Brother of Orwell.

 

[Patrick]

I'm not sure if Gura has the time or interest to hear from MD Shooters, but I'll certainly bet SAF does.

It might not be a bad idea to let SAF know that there have been at least a couple hundred applications to MD for CCW, and that MD is now not even numerous persons are having applications returned without processing based on lack of G&S.

SAF is aware; just got off the phone with them. Gura is aware. Hansel is aware. My wife is aware.

Now let's see where this goes. For now let's also see how many people got bumped out this way.

 

[gmhowell]

I frankly don't want to give them any advice, or tip my hand. They are doing quite well for us on their own.

If Gansler needs to come to me for advice, he's already lost.

 

[BUFF7MM]

You won't, I HIGHLY doubt any of us will. It would require them cutting refund checks, which is something the application very clearly states they do NOT do.

If I get it back or the denial I wasn't expecting a refund

I have PMs suggesting more. Seems the mail went out the same day.

I figure that I'm at least a day or two behind in the mail because of my location.

 

[gmhowell]

Did I miss something here?? I am guessing that I did. Please do tell.

He referred to the situation as 'Orwellian'. I found it more 'Kafkaesque'. Go read 'The Trial'.

As far as the other part, if you have been denied by MSP, you can request an appeal within 10 days. If I understand correctly, esqappelate seems to think a case can be made that the non-denial-denial is a for-real-denial and therefore it is ripe to go to the appeal board. (Sorta like that Rush line "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice")

 

[esqappellate]

Are the appeal for these sorts of things open to public like most court hearings? Could be interesting to attend if someone gets in front of the board. Then again, I like watching court cases (when my ex-wife isn't sitting on the other side of the aisle, that is).

Should be but not sure about that. Administrative proceeding generally are

 

[USAFRavenR6]

Posts by esqappelate may be the best to heed. He is a lawyer but is not offering legal advice. That said, he can read and digest this stuff faster than the rest.

It looks like you have three choices:

1. Grin and take it
2. Send it back to MSP to process
3. Take it to the appeals board

Someone is sending it back to the MSP. Esqappelate said he would go to the appeals board (arguing that he was denied, even though the letters say no determination has been made). IIRC, it doesn't cost to do the latter, so why not?

It's really up to you.

BTW, go to the Introductions forum and leave a post.

I will be sure to head on over to the introductions forum once my wife returns home from shopping. I am currently on an iPad and watching a two year old and a new born....... I have no problem requesting a hearing in Fromm of the review board, however I need to be better equipped in terms of the process and knowledge prior to doing so. Has anyone been infront of one of these boards? Can anyone shed some light on the process. I know google is my friend but I'd prefer to hear this first hand and like I said, I'm watching some kids that distracts me from proper research.

 

[jfox]

SAF is aware; just got off the phone with them. Gura is aware. Hansel is aware. My wife is aware.

Now let's see where this goes. For now let's also see how many people got bumped out this way.

Even the wives, huh?

Good job, Patrick. Thanks

 

[jfox]

Should be but not sure about that. Administrative proceeding generally are

I thought they often go closed door for these sorts of things...but that may very well not be the case. It would be good to go, just to listen and prepare.

 

[Kilroy]

First person to sue them gets $50 from me.

 

[jmcgonig]

I thought they often go closed door for these sorts of things...but that may very well not be the case. It would be good to go, just to listen and prepare.

Be funny if 100 people show up.

 

[jfox]

on the process. I know google is my friend but I'd prefer to hear this first hand and like I said, I'm watching some kids that distracts me from proper research.

I have been involved in similar things.

I suspect in this case, considering who you will be dealing with, it will largely be a forum where you would present your reasons why you should be granted, and they will simply ask a question or two, and soon thereafter follow with their written final decision. You could choose to bring representation to the hearing, but I don't think you need to. It would be good to do so, though imho.

 

[Patrick]

If you ask for a hearing and they refuse to give you one by saying you do not qualify, then the state has ended your path of appeal.

Remember the first several months of the Woollard case when they state argued that the case should be dismissed because the plaintiff did not pursue the case all the way through the system?

Well, it failed because the federal court said the MSP ended his path.

Same here. If the MSP ends your appeals path, they cannot later argue your civil rights claim lacks standing. They could argue that Judge Legg let them do it, but that won't work if the stay is not made permanent.

Again. This was a dumb move on their part and it feels like they are acting the petulant child after getting their asses handed to them last week by we little people. They could have sat on these and it would not have changed anything. But sending these letters opens them to some risk with the courts - it smacks of bad faith.

Again. No sense. It doesn't help them in significant ways, and even the minor ways are really minor. The only thing I can suspect is they are afraid of people getting to the handgun review board - people can petition for a hearing after 90 days and if I were on the board I wouldn't say no to anyone. More on that later.

 

[Patrick]

Even the wives, huh?

Good job, Patrick. Thanks

Wives? Plural?

I cannot handle the one I got now. Don't bless me twice.

EDIT: She's a great wife and mom. Only curse is I cannot keep up with her...

 

[jfox]

The only thing I can suspect is they are afraid of people getting to the handgun review board - people can petition for a hearing after 90 days and if I were on the board I wouldn't say no to anyone. More on that later.

Patrick, We are thinking exactly alike, on more than one thing. Actually, if they deny at the board in bad faith...there may soon be some pathways to sue individual members of the board. Keep in mind these are not state employees, so I think there are limits to their protection.

 

[Kilroy]

I missed the part where Judge Legg gave them a stay. If he did, that would mean the old laws were still in effect? So why were people applying?