"No Guns Allowed" signs

[TonyB.]

I tried to search, but it's down at the moment so please excuse me if this has been asked already.

I recently attended a training course where an attorney taught part of the course regarding Maryland laws as they relate to the wear and carry permit. He said that in MD you are not required to obey the "no gun" signs present at the entrance. He did say that if you're asked to leave that you must. Any truth to this?

 

[BradMacc82]

If asked to leave, you must leave or be faced with a Trespassing charge. To the best of my knowledge that applies in many states.

Of course state and federal buildings, if you got the balls to bring your sidearm in with you (and not be authorized to do so), then you got the balls to see how that plays out for you.

 

[mward]

The signs aren't a lawful sign, however if asked to leave and refuse, that is trespassing. They have the right to refuse service to you.

 

[TonyB.]

I know about federal buildings and such. That's not in question. I'm talking about places like restaurants and the mall.

I re-read my original post and I worded it wrongly. If a business owner somehow knows you're carrying and asks you to leave I know you have to. A potential scenario I can see is a place like the mall. Let's say there's a "no guns" sign on the door and you miss it. Is there anything that a security guard, LEO or store owner do to you besides ask you to leave? I realize if they know you're carrying you're doing something wrong already but that's a separate subject.

 

[BradMacc82]

AFAIK, they have to ask that you leave the premises before any other action can be taken, assuming you don't comply with the request and then further action being necessary.

 

[swinokur]

AFAIK MD has no criminal statute that makes it a crime to carry with a permit where signs are posted. You can be asked to leave and a refusal could bring a trespass charge.

IANAL

 

[Safetech]

One thing I have noticed it that when there is some rule about "no Firearms", it's often written in 1/2" letters, buried in with a bunch of other "rules". IOW, unless you are looking for it (enough to stop and read the "rules" before you enter any premises) you'll most likely never even be aware that firearms are "frowned upon" by the establishment.

I've seen (in other states) the typical "gun in a red circle with a diagonal line" decal on doors. But I don't think I've ever seen one of those in MD. Which is probably because very few people can legally carry here.

 

[swinokur]

The theaters in VA are this way. The small sticker is sometimes placed at floor level and not even in your line of sight. Often in a corner of the entrance. Or as mentioned in small print on a larger sign with a list of prohibitions. So small as to be almost unreadable.,

I think this is done to make the lawyers and insurance carriers happy. Relieves them of some liability.

 

[alucard0822]

I tried to search, but it's down at the moment so please excuse me if this has been asked already.

I recently attended a training course where an attorney taught part of the course regarding Maryland laws as they relate to the wear and carry permit. He said that in MD you are not required to obey the "no gun" signs present at the entrance. He did say that if you're asked to leave that you must. Any truth to this?

Pretty common in most states. There are exceptions like Texas where a sign can have the weight of the law and a related charge. Essentially the sign means nothing, you are free to ignore it, and carry right past it, doing so is not a crime. The property owner does have the right to ask you to leave, and may call police to assist, if you refuse to leave in a reasonable manner, then you may be charged with trespassing. The store employees have no right to lay a hand on you, and you have every right to defend yourself if they try, they cannot force you to surrender a weapon, and there is no reason that you should. There are also allowances in many cases for circumstances like shopping with family, where you might be in a different department than your wife or kid, if you have to leave the store, there must be a reasonable effort to locate your family and have them meet you before you leave, and police may escort them to you, or you to them. Luckily the instances are few and far between, most retailers don't really care, and most mall cops don't make enough , and have enough sense not to try to tackle an armed person who is not committing a crime.

 

[swinokur]

I know the signs in TX must be in compliance with the TX 30.06 statute as far as design and placement. Otherwise they don't carry the force of law.

Minutiae I know

 

[CharlieFoxtrot]

AFAIK MD has no criminal statute that makes it a crime to carry with a permit where signs are posted. You can be asked to leave and a refusal could bring a trespass charge.

IANAL

+1 IAAL

 

[swinokur]

 

[TonyB.]

Tis what I thought. Thanks, Gents.

 

[K31]

It is well known that such signs put the fear of God into criminals kind of like Dracula and a cross.

IAMANAL.

 

[sbmike]

How about designing and making available a small sticker that can be easily carried in one's pocket that reads "The owner of this establishment wishes everyone to know that this is a gun-free zone. Isn't that an open invitation to would-be criminals?"

As you walk in (or by), place the sticker near the "gun-free" notice. It will no doubt be removed as soon as the owners discover it but in the meantime, it will hopefully give a few patrons at least a moment to pause and ponder the implications.

Just thinking outside the box... before my mind kicks back into the real world.

 

[gamer_jim]

http://www.learntocarry.com/nogunsnomoney/

 

[Half-cocked]

It is well known that such signs put the fear of God into criminals kind of like Dracula and a cross.



IAMANAL.

Laugh all you want, but I bet there have been thousands of mass murders that never happened, because some psychopathic killer saw a "gun-free zone" sign, and walked away because of a deep-seated desire to obey the law.




Scratched onto a piece of slate and carried by specially trained prehistoric birds.

 

[Morgan321]

A business refusing service to law abiding citizens is discrimination. Somebody with time and money should sue!

 

[gamer_jim]

A business refusing service to law abiding citizens is discrimination. Somebody with time and money should sue!

Negatory, it's private property and gun owners are not a protected class of people.

 

[K31]

A business refusing service to law abiding citizens is discrimination. Somebody with time and money should sue!

Only if you are part of a designated victim class.