MSP the Enemy?

[JettaRed]

The MSP have been portrayed as the enemy of the 2A and gun-ownership. I’m not sure that is fair or accurate. They have the daunting and thankless task of writing regulation to try to enforce a stupid and nonsensical law. While there may be some that put career above common sense, my experience has been that many privately disagree with the direction of the current administration and what it is trying to do.

As recent as this weekend, I had an MSP officer tell me that we should arm all of our citizens, even teachers, to stop these senseless mass killings. He also said the problem is mental health, not gun ownership or possession. “If someone really wants to kill me, and I don’t know it, there is nothing I can do. And they won’t need a gun to do it.”

Perhaps, instead of contending with the MSP, we should make more of an effort to work with them. Then, perhaps, when some of us experience rogue behavior (as has been posted elsewhere), we will have the credibility to expose and correct such behavior. Just a though.

 

[Trbo6gn]

The MSP have been portrayed as the enemy of the 2A and gun-ownership. I’m not sure that is fair or accurate. They have the daunting and thankless task of writing regulation to try to enforce a stupid and nonsensical law. While there may be some that put career above common sense, my experience has been that many privately disagree with the direction of the current administration and what it is trying to do.

As recent as this weekend, I had an MSP officer tell me that we should arm all of our citizens, even teachers, to stop these senseless mass killings. He also said the problem is mental health, not gun ownership or possession. “If someone really wants to kill me, and I don’t know it, there is nothing I can do. And they won’t need a gun to do it.”

Perhaps, instead of contending with the MSP, we should make more of an effort to work with them. Then, perhaps, when some of us experience rough behavior (as has been posted elsewhere), we will have the credibility to expose and correct such behavior. Just a though.

It's not the troopers who are on the road that we have to be concerned about. It's the ones who sit in the offices and hob knob with county/state officials that are the problem.

 

[Mr H]

It's pretty well established that rank-and-file Troopers are with us on this.

It's the brass, particularly those in positions appointed by the Lord Governor, we need to be concerned with.

 

[Ungermc]

Agreed, those who are part of the political machine are the problem...our Troopers out there punching a clock and doing the job are forced into the role of pawns in the enforcement of unjust laws. Until we can change these laws, we need to work with our Troopers so they understand these confusing new laws and help avoid unnecessary misunderstandings.

 

[Mr H]

The other thing we can do, is to 'encourage' the sheriffs across the state to sign on the Sheriff Mack Pledge, and refuse to enforce Unconstitutional laws.

Several have already, but this needs to be noisy!

(info can be found on Oath Keepers, as well as Gun Owners of America)

 

[Trbo6gn]

I'd honestly be more afraid of the MDTA police. Over the years i've come to the conclusion that those guys would ticket/arrest the pope if they had the oppurtunity. They are akin to the Gestapo.

 

[JettaRed]

Agreed. Those are the ones I politely referred to as "putting careers above common sense." I just wanted to make the distinction because the sentiment on this forum appears to lump all MSP together.

Interesting that my encounter with the duty officer (some corporal) at the State Police Headquarters on Reistertown Road this weekend was unpleasant at best. I was trying to comply with the law and tranfer a pistol to my son. This particular public servant was surly and unhelpful, telling me to come back on Monday, "we don't do transfers here (on the weekend)". I finally got out of her where the closest barrack was that might do the transfer--some distance away.

However, at the barrack (I'm being intentionally vague to protect the officer that helped us), we were met with courtesy and respect. This particular officer was helpful and friendly. Perhaps that is an indication of the difference between HQ and the field.

 

[abean4187]

As far as I am concerned, any member of the state is the enemy at this point. People have been doing evil and saying, “Oh, I was just following orders” throughout history. It is not an excuse.

 

[daNattyFatty]

Perhaps that is an indication of the difference between HQ and the field.

Or someone just having a bad day. We'll probably never know!

 

[DadOSix]

The MSP have been portrayed as the enemy of the 2A and gun-ownership. I’m not sure that is fair or accurate. They have the daunting and thankless task of writing regulation to try to enforce a stupid and nonsensical law. While there may be some that put career above common sense, my experience has been that many privately disagree with the direction of the current administration and what it is trying to do.

As recent as this weekend, I had an MSP officer tell me that we should arm all of our citizens, even teachers, to stop these senseless mass killings. He also said the problem is mental health, not gun ownership or possession. “If someone really wants to kill me, and I don’t know it, there is nothing I can do. And they won’t need a gun to do it.”

Perhaps, instead of contending with the MSP, we should make more of an effort to work with them. Then, perhaps, when some of us experience rough behavior (as has been posted elsewhere), we will have the credibility to expose and correct such behavior. Just a though.

This ^^ x2

Agreed - the local guys and gals on MSP in my area are top notch. Don't have a problem with the troopers.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

Agreed. Those are the ones I politely referred to as "putting careers above oath." I just wanted to make the distinction because the sentiment on this forum appears to lump all MSP together.

Interesting that my encounter with the duty officer (some corporal) at the State Police Headquarters on Reistertown Road this weekend was unpleasant at best. I was trying to comply with the law and tranfer a pistol to my son. This particular public servant was surly and unhelpful, telling me to come back on Monday, "we don't do transfers here (on the weekend)". I finally got out of her where the closest barrack was that might do the transfer--some distance away.

However, at the barrack (I'm being intentionally vague to protect the officer that helped us), we were met with courtesy and respect. This particular officer was helpful and friendly. Perhaps that is an indication of the difference between HQ and the field.

Fixed it for ya. If the MSP union had the gumption of the line troopers to stand up for their oath of office, then maybe some of the shenanigans would be avoided.

We are coming to a major crossroad in this state/country. Some say we have already crossed through that crossroad, and when the system shows to be so corrupt as we have personally witnessed in the past 8 months, I tend to agree. They operate outside the confines of the law and the system because they can, and we must play by the hamstring that is the law.

I wish there were enough people in this state to stand in Annapolis on Oct 1, and hand one another a 20 round magazine like Colorado did!

 

[StantonCree]

As far as I am concerned, any member of the state is the enemy at this point. People have been doing evil and saying, “Oh, I was just following orders” throughout history. It is not an excuse.

Yup I 100% agree screw smiegel and Sen Jacobs.....lazy bastards.


Lets see who takes this seriously......3......2......1

 

[StantonCree]

Fixed it for ya. If the MSP union had the gumption of the line troopers to stand up for their oath of office, then maybe some of the shenanigans would be avoided.

We are coming to a major crossroad in this state/country. Some say we have already crossed through that crossroad, and when the system shows to be so corrupt as we have personally witnessed in the past 8 months, I tend to agree. They operate outside the confines of the law and the system because they can, and we must play by the hamstring that is the law.

I wish there were enough people in this state to stand in Annapolis on Oct 1, and hand one another a 20 round magazine like Colorado did!

I dont think the brass is union protected and due to the fact that this doesn't seriously effect work conditions or police in general they have no real dog in this fight. They are a police protection agency not a 2A protection agency. Im confused as to your point.

 

[fightinbluhen51]

I dont think the brass is union protected and due to the fact that this doesn't seriously effect work conditions or police in general they have no real dog in this fight. They are a police protection agency not a 2A protection agency. Im confused as to your point.

If the line officers used their FOP / Union to hold the feet of their bosses to the fire to honor their oaths (both line and leadership), maybe MSP wouldn't be the political puppet that O'MAOlly has turned it into.

I'm not saying that all troopers are bad, or wrong, and I understand most of them are just looking out for their own self interest, but, again, they did swear an oath to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law above all else; ultimately, the buck stops with them if they choose to not have honor in their oath. If there are a majority of line troopers who feel as we do, there is most likely recourse in concert through one of those two organizations. My point being, this does affect their working conditions, being placed in direct conflict with angry citizens? Going against their own political beliefs?

More line officers need to learn, that their political speech is as protected as their right to arms, and they need to use it! What would the general assembly say if 500 uniformed officers, troopers, sheriffs deputies had shown up to testify in direct opposition to this shamnisty with their union's or FOP's backing? It would be hard for the "brass" to condemn them, and certainly they would not be able to retaliate against them for their free speech.

A right un-exercised is a right lost. That was my point...obviously, it's a very tough situation to be in, but again, we are at a crossroads, and either we fold like a cheap suit, or we standup and stand upon honor and integrity in support of freedom.

 

[hvymax]

The vast majority will follow unlawful orders or end their careers. All I can say is Nuremberg.

 

[Boom Boom]

The rank and file have zero to do with it. The vast majority are pro 2A just like you and me. Many have been stocking up on to-be-banned guns, as seen by my own eyes quite a bit lately in local gun shops.

 

[hvymax]

I believe it is MSP that is setting up units of ambitious officers with no contact with the licensing division going to homes enforcing non laws.

 

[Boom Boom]

The only anecdotes I know of are related to one gun shop in VA and the unproven FB post. Hopefully if people affected by the VA incident have the will and means, they will lawyer up to cure the disease.

 

[Ganegrei]

The state police are the agents and enforcers of the policies of the state government. This applies to any state. If the state government is limited and values freedom, the state police will follow suit. In Maryland, you see the opposite.

 

[StantonCree]

If the line officers used their FOP / Union to hold the feet of their bosses to the fire to honor their oaths (both line and leadership), maybe MSP wouldn't be the political puppet that O'MAOlly has turned it into.

I'm not saying that all troopers are bad, or wrong, and I understand most of them are just looking out for their own self interest, but, again, they did swear an oath to uphold the Constitution and the rule of law above all else; ultimately, the buck stops with them if they choose to not have honor in their oath. If there are a majority of line troopers who feel as we do, there is most likely recourse in concert through one of those two organizations. My point being, this does affect their working conditions, being placed in direct conflict with angry citizens? Going against their own political beliefs?

More line officers need to learn, that their political speech is as protected as their right to arms, and they need to use it! What would the general assembly say if 500 uniformed officers, troopers, sheriffs deputies had shown up to testify in direct opposition to this shamnisty with their union's or FOP's backing? It would be hard for the "brass" to condemn them, and certainly they would not be able to retaliate against them for their free speech.

A right un-exercised is a right lost. That was my point...obviously, it's a very tough situation to be in, but again, we are at a crossroads, and either we fold like a cheap suit, or we standup and stand upon honor and integrity in support of freedom.

Wile I understand your frustration and thought process you have missed the mark on this.

The FOP/Unions have zero dog in this fight. They are not a pro/anti organization and they would gain nothing from this. The management generally does not have FOP protection because the point of the FOP is to protect us from the management. There and no workplace related grievances in reference to these new laws so the FOPs union lobbiers would be tant amount to PETA lobbiers standing up for these laws.

If the FOP were to stand up and say, "We want the appointed brass to resign due to hese laws" it would be pissing up wind. They would be added to the anti-gun agendas hit list and their necessary fights (police concerns) would be met with more opposition money because of their 2A stance. You also have to understand that a lot of the management in place were not appointed but tested into promotion and since they tested in calling for demotion or removal ISN'T going to happen. The appointed positions are fair game but what does the FOP stand to gain? They don't really lobby for laws unless the laws restrict the freedom or have a direct impact on on-duty officers. I can't see how the implemation of these laws negatively effect on duty personnel.

From an FOP point of view it makes 0 sense getting involved in this debacle. In fact and I hate to be the guy to admit it but if the MSP has to hire more sworn personnel to deal with HQL related issues then the FOP would only stand to gain more constituents.

Until the MSP management enact general orders that actively tell officers to break current law, the FOP is not an option for a voice in this fight.

In fact if you really want to get into it POST Heller one of the Justices stated that Registration might actually be as legal as they come due to the fact that states previously kept track of private weapons to ensure that "Militia" members were properly armed in case they were called to action. The whole training, live fire, and card could be considered a prerequisite to militia membership (I've been case searching but besides Heller and the Hayes case there isn't much on the whole registration topic that I could find)