MSI vs Anne Arundel County-loss

[KJackson]

It would be interesting to see how people would react, although I think we can all guess how it would go, if everyone who inquired about an abortion had to be given a pamphlet outlining other options available to them.

 

[welder516]

It would be interesting to see how people would react, although I think we can all guess how it would go, if everyone who inquired about an abortion had to be given a pamphlet outlining other options available to them.

Abortion with guns, late term adult abortions.

 

[Steel Hunter]

Am I the only person that thinks this is not a good look for pro-2A to put up a fight against these pamphlets? It makes us look like unreasonable gun zealots when we’ve got much bigger issues at stake.

Is it a big loss? No. But what it does do is raise costs to you and every other gun owner out there. How much are you willing to pay for a right before you can't afford it? Is 2A for only the rich elite or is it for all Americans?

 

[RFBfromDE]

It would be interesting to see how people would react, although I think we can all guess how it would go, if everyone who inquired about an abortion had to be given a pamphlet outlining other options available to them.

No need wait.

Hand them out in front of an abortion mill and see how long that lasts.

 

[Bob A]

I'm waiting for the Rope Qualification License, required before purchase, after health check and doctor's note indicating the prospective purchaser is not depressed.

Seven day cooling off period as well.

BTW, in 2021 there were 620 suicides in MD, for a rate of 9.7 per 100K; homicides were 709, at a rate of 12.2 per 100K. Baltimorgue certainly contributed to the overall picture, as they added 338 homicides - 48% of the Maryland total, while being only 9% of the state's total population.

There's a moral in there somewhere . . .

 

[RFBfromDE]

Careful, you will awaken “the meme” god!

 

[swinokur]

It would be nice to have a brief description if what this thread is about.

I clicked the link, which downloaded some sort of pdf. I absolutely loath pdfs. They clutter up my computers, usually for no good reason. Many pdfs are less than a page in length; why use the pdf format? Others are 50 pages or more. That's fine if it's something I want to read or at least skim, like the Bruen decision. But it would be nice to know what I'm downloading ahead of time.

Now I have to hunt down this file that’s cluttering up my phone so I can delete it, and I still don't know what this thread is about.

If you actually read the pdf you will know.

Welcome to the 20th century

 

[Schipperke]

Could be worse, required packaging in Europe. Slippery slope?

 

[RFBfromDE]

Could be worse, required packaging in Europe. Slippery slope?

They will probably have to re-think the harms unborn babies label.

 

[Twist]

You have been tricked into thinking this is a 2a issue.

This.

I understand that the argument was related to compelled speech but it was clear that the purpose of this law was to further demonize firearms - or more to the point show their constituents that some lawmakers care about gun violence but in passing this law clearly show that they don't understand what to do about it.

Some gun ranges will not let a solo customer rent a gun and use the range due to the risk that they're there to remove themselves from the gene pool. This is an inconvenience to someone that just wants to try different firearms before buying but the range has made the judgement that the risk is not worth the customer service in that circumstance; and, I have no argument with that. But it seems a bit of an interesting point that the same range sued to overturn the requirement to hand out suicide pamphlets.

We're all firearms enthusiasts here but to the general public how are they to interpret gun stores resorting to a legal fight to not hand out pamphlets on preventing suicides?

 

[RFBfromDE]

....it seems a bit of an interesting point that the same range sued to overturn the requirement to hand out suicide pamphlets.

We're all firearms enthusiasts here but to the general public how are they to interpret gun stores resorting to a legal fight to not hand out pamphlets on preventing suicides.

1. Is there any evidence that says they do not hand out suicide prevention pamphlets voluntarily? Your stated example is proof that they take the matter seriously. The issue is "requirement" not the subject matter.

2. One may lower oneself to the lowest common denominator. I choose not to.

 

[TexDefender]

Do the shops have to pay for these pamphlets? Because I would put it into the nearest trashcan.

 

[RFBfromDE]

It would be nice to have a brief description if what this thread is about.

Federal appeals court upholds local gun safety pamphlet law in Maryland - WTOP News

A federal appeals court upheld a county law in Maryland on Tuesday that requires gun dealers to distribute information about suicide prevention, conflict resolution and mental health resources.

wtop.com

“Ensuring gun owners are aware of accessible mental health and suicide prevention services is a critical step in reducing gun deaths and saving lives,” Pittman said.

Mark Pennak, president of Maryland Shall Issue, said he thought the ruling was “grievously wrong,” because it compels speech at a place of commercial establishment.

“That’s never been the law,” Pennak said. “It’s contrary to Supreme Court precedent, and it would invite wholesale unconstitutional action by governments.”

I agree with Mark.

 

[BurkeM]

It would be nice to have a brief description if what this thread is about.

On April 11, Maryland Shall Issue, along with four firearms and ammunition dealers, Field Traders, Cindy's Hot Shots, Pasadena Arms, and Worth-A-Shot, filed a suit in federal district court against Anne Arundel County, MD challenging Bill 108-21, an ordinance that mandates that sellers of firearms or ammunition within the county distribute county-prepared or sponsored literature with each sale and display the materials in their establishments. The complaint alleges that the ordinance is unconstitutional under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

On January 10, 2022, the Defendant, Anne Arundel County, Maryland (“the County”)
signed into law Bill 108-21 (“the Bill”), a copy of which is attached to this complaint as Exhibit A
and is incorporated herein in its entirety by reference. Bill 108-21 became effective on April 10, 2022.
Through the enactment of County Bill 108-21, the County undertakes to prepare or sponsor literature
concerning gun safety, gun training, suicide prevention, mental health and conflict resolution. As
distributed to dealers by a County representative on or about April 8, 2022, that literature takes the
form of two pieces of literature. The first is a pamphlet entitled “Firearms and Suicide Prevention”
published jointly by the National Shooting Sports Foundation (“NSSF”) and the American
Foundation for Suicide Prevention.

A copy of that pamphlet, as downloaded from the NSSF website
at https://bit.ly/3rgLt6r, is attached as Exhibit B and is incorporated herein in its entirety by reference.
The text and layout of this downloaded copy is identical to the printed copy distributed by the County.

2. The second piece of literature distributed by the County on or about April 8, 2022, is
single page measuring 6” by 6,” setting forth information concerning County “resources” for “conflict
resolution.” A copy of that piece of literature is attached as Exhibit C and is incorporated herein in its
entirety by reference. The County has distributed both pieces of this literature to Anne Arundel
County dealers. Bill 108-21 requires that licensed firearms dealers in the County make this literature
“visible and available” at the business establishments of licensed firearms dealers and to “distribute
the literature” to “all purchasers of guns or ammunition” at such locations. Other than Maryland Shall
Issue, Inc., each plaintiff to this action is a licensed firearms dealer subject to Bill 108-21, and each
plaintiff objects to being commandeered as a distributor for the County’s literature.

Bill 108-21 constitutes “compelled speech” in violation of the plaintiff dealers’ First Amendment rights. Bill 108-21 also violates the First Amendment rights of persons who visit or do business with a dealer in Anne
Arundel County by effectively chilling the speech of customers who may disagree with the County’s
preferred message.

 

[Sirex]

These people really think a pamphlet would've stopped the guy who shot up the Capital Gazette?

A paper cut to the trigger finger could have saved them all.

 

[BurkeM]

Do the shops have to pay for these pamphlets? Because I would put it into the nearest trashcan.

Failure to distribute the compelled speech- is a citable OFFENSE.

Bill No. 108-21
Page No. 2
(B) Requirements. ESTABLISHMENTS THAT SELL GUNS OR AMMUNITION SHALL MAKE
THE LITERATURE DISTRIBUTED BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT VISIBLE AND AVAILABLE
AT THE POINT OF SALE. THESE ESTABLISHMENTS SHALL ALSO DISTRIBUTE THE
LITERATURE TO ALL PURCHASERS OF GUNS OR AMMUNITION.
(C) Enforcement. AN AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT MAY ISSUE A CITATION TO AN OWNER OF AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT SELLS GUNS OR AMMUNITION FOR A VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION (B).
(D) Violations. A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION IS A CLASS C CIVIL OFFENSE PURSUANT
TO § 9-2-101 OF THIS CODE.

{ for a Class C civil offense: $500 for the first violation and $1,000 for the second or any subsequent violation;}

 

[RFBfromDE]

From TOP article;

"The literature consists of a pamphlet jointly authored by the National Shooting Sports Foundation and the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention concerning firearms and suicide prevention, as well as a one-page insert developed by the county concerning local resources for suicide and conflict prevention."

Try to be a nice guy and placate these b-tards and they turn around and shive you in the ass for your effort.

No thanks.

 

[TexDefender]

Failure to distribute the compelled speech- is a citable OFFENSE.

Bill No. 108-21
Page No. 2
(B) Requirements. ESTABLISHMENTS THAT SELL GUNS OR AMMUNITION SHALL MAKE
THE LITERATURE DISTRIBUTED BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT VISIBLE AND AVAILABLE
AT THE POINT OF SALE. THESE ESTABLISHMENTS SHALL ALSO DISTRIBUTE THE
LITERATURE TO ALL PURCHASERS OF GUNS OR AMMUNITION.
(C) Enforcement. AN AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF THE ANNE ARUNDEL COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT MAY ISSUE A CITATION TO AN OWNER OF AN ESTABLISHMENT THAT SELLS GUNS OR AMMUNITION FOR A VIOLATION OF SUBSECTION (B).
(D) Violations. A VIOLATION OF THIS SECTION IS A CLASS C CIVIL OFFENSE PURSUANT
TO § 9-2-101 OF THIS CODE.

{ for a Class C civil offense: $500 for the first violation and $1,000 for the second or any subsequent violation;}

I, as a purchaser, would still put it in the trashcan. Not a lot of thought goes into their thought process for this law, as firearm suicides tend to be more impulsive than those from other methods. So the odds of person going down to the local gun shop to purchase (spend several hundreds of dollars) a firearm to do oneself in is quiet low. Every year the Air Force has suicide prevention training that is mandatory, and every year there are still suicides. Why? No doubt we are now a society that spends more time with our noses in a mobile phone, on a computer, playing video games or on TV. And I'm of the opinion social media has more to do with increase suicide that anything else.

 

[BurkeM]

I, as a purchaser, would still put it in the trashcan. Not a lot of thought goes into their thought process, as firearm suicides tend to be more impulsive than those from other methods. So the odds of person going down to the local gun shop to purchase a firearm to do oneself in is quiet low.

What the buyer does is irrelevant- to the Imperial Council.


*never mind the 7 day waiting period for handguns*

 

[JohnnyE]

I'm confused, I buy ammo in AA County and have never been given these.

I think a better response is for MSI to provide their own pamphlet for distribution alongside these outlining their objections.

Think about this...maybe they don't want to discourage you from offing yourself?