Maryland State Police licensing division overturned

[Muleskinner]

These "victories" are hollow...wait until renewal time....either Hogan won't be governor and the members of the board will have been replaced with liberals or the MSP licensing div will deny you and force you to go through the board process again....and don't be surprised if Frosh tries to find a way to stop the board from overturning MSP...

 

[swinokur]

NOBODY is that you?

 

[Mr H]

He's still on the road driving under the speed limit in the left lane.

Some needles never move!

 

[Blacksmith101]

He's still on the road driving under the speed limit in the left lane.

For some people it is "My way or the highway." and they will keep on impeding the flow of traffic for everyone else.

 

[DC-W]

For all the crystal ball types out there... Wasn't brown supposed to be governor? HBARs banned? AR10s banned? Possession of 10rd+ mags banned?

 

[LoneRanger]

He's still on the road driving under the speed limit in the left lane.

If you are going to accuse me of something at least get your facts straight.....I never drive under the speed limit in the left lane....I drive at the speed limit in the left lane........

 

[Muleskinner]

For all the crystal ball types out there... Wasn't brown supposed to be governor? HBARs banned? AR10s banned? Possession of 10rd+ mags banned?

Well, if you take Brown at his word then the answer to your question is no....He said in his campaign that "no gun laws would be changed"...now of course he's a politician so he can't be trusted....Hogan said the same thing....and as we all know so far he's kept his word pretty much....

 

[Brooklyn]

I am somewhere between the Ranger and montoya on this. While it's true denials are being overturned, but the process is arduous and not many have the time/money/inclination to pursue this arduous course.

Even if self defense were made G&S tomorrow, I probably wouldn't apply for a permit as I think the 'scheme' is a sham and utter BS, but that would be my choice.

I hope someday getting a Maryland permit will be like getting a PA permit, but I'm not overly optimistic. I will continue to fight, as I'm stuck here in Maryland for years to come.

MSI meeting September 19, 2015

Once the needle moves at all several new lines of attack in the courts appear.. any of which can be fatal to may issue without a direct 2a challenge..


Think about that.. think about that in the context of a divided court..

Also note that the court tends to follow not lead..

Long game or nothing.

 

[Bolts Rock]

If you are going to accuse me of something at least get your facts straight.....I never drive under the speed limit in the left lane....I drive at the speed limit in the left lane........

You had to see that coming!

Don't you know in Maryland the posted speed limit is for the right lane and the left is 20mph higher?

 

[dblas]

No he's not.....

Exchanging banter while expressing opposing views is not a waste of time.

dblas is just more diplomatic about it than I am.....I'm more trumpomatic, which many take the wrong way.

He is probably not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change his....I don't have a problem with that and doubt he has a problem with it.

The real waste of time is burying your head in the sand and totally ignoring opposing views....all that does is cause you to eventually smother yourself from a lack of fresh air.

I'm been around a long time and have involved myself in numerous issues of my choosing throughout life, going all the way back to the Vietnam war.....

I have learned there are many paths to take to enact change, a few are the correct path....most are the wrong path....raising your hackles over the minutiae of how HPRB meetings are ran is a wrong path. As I have said before, it is on the same level as internet forum spelling police.

I also learned a long time ago that when you pull the tail of the ruling class....they do bite back...........

Maybe and maybe not, without minutes in the past we have had no way to tell if the HPRB is doing an objective job or just rubber stamping MSP denials. Up until the minutes were published, we have had to rely on folks showing up in person and then reporting on the meeting (which should continue regardless of the changes made).

Minutes make it easier to make a case to the powers that be for something not being done correctly, as well as things being done extremely well, without them it is essentially a we said, they said matter unless the powers that be decide to get involved themselves.

While yes, we agree it is a small change, I think we disagree on it's potential.

As for the rest, I learned a long time ago, not to throw away what others call idle banter, from an opposing view. Every once in a while there may be a small nugget of opportunity that we don't see in the idle banter of those that tend to get under everyone else's skin.

 

[dblas]

Then why are you doing exactly that when people try and explain to you the progress that is being made with the HPRB?

He sees progress, his view is that it not as significant, nor as important as the rest think it is.

In the end, he may be right, but until the end, we will continue to pursue change via any and every avenue at all disposal, one small incremental step at a time. Will it be a waste of our time on this one process as he thinks it is? Who knows, time will tell, it really is too early to tell for sure, but the immediate outlook looks really good.

 

[dblas]

My eyes are wide open, my head is up high, the air is fresh and clean.....what I see is minimal progress towards perhaps a couple dozen folks maybe getting a carry permit over period of God knows how many years. Some obviously have a shorter yardstick than I do and call that progress....if the MSP changes policies and takes a broader view of what is G&S.....it is only going to take one MGA session to change that.....

And it will only take one MGA session for us to do the same in our favor, argument goes both ways.

 

[dblas]

Sustainable progress is what would be remarkable. Even if this board does do the magic many are claiming, it all gets torn down again next Progressive Governor. Need legislation and/or court orders for real change.



Word up..

Sustainable progress and the long game are absolutely correct, but why not use this short game of quick victories to our advantage, use them to perhaps work on the MGA to completely rewrite and update the wear and carry statute?

 

[dblas]

So then wait until the end of the next general assembly to be a grumpy old man. We're not going to get legislation and change in delegates and senators for sometime, but right now the needle is moving in our direction and you can't seem to say anything but broad negative, unproductive rants. I think 95% of those on this board know what the ultimate victory would be, but that is not realistic in the next 3 years.

You're acting like a spoiled housewife. You want a Porsche and all your husband wants to give you is a used BMW and that's not good enough.

Why isn't it realistic? Why can't there be a comprehensive rewrite of the wear and carry statute that gets passed in the next three years? Thinking like the above will defenitely lead to failure, and you sound like LR, and MS when you say it.

 

[montoya32]

These "victories" are hollow...wait until renewal time....either Hogan won't be governor and the members of the board will have been replaced with liberals or the MSP licensing div will deny you and force you to go through the board process again....and don't be surprised if Frosh tries to find a way to stop the board from overturning MSP...

The new Gov, if that happens, cannot just replace board members. Hogan appointed members based on resignations and expired terms.

 

[dblas]

Sustainable progress is what would be remarkable. Even if this board does do the magic many are claiming, it all gets torn down again next Progressive Governor. Need legislation and/or court orders for real change.

Exactly...that is why Hogan refusing to instruct Pallozi to define G&S as SELF DEFENSE regardless of Frosh's opinion hurts us...had he done this thousands of applications would be submitted and....

Once the permits start flowing like water Frosh WILL file suit....which is EXACTLY what we need...Put this matter into the hands of the court and let it find it's way to the SCOTUS...The precedent is already set....the court WILL force the state to grant a SHALL ISSUE law based upon their prior rulings...

BUT it's never going to happen with an anti 2A governor...which I believe Hogan to be...Until then, the board will slowly trickle out permits 3-4 at a time, denying people their constitutional rights based on their mood of the day....

Self defense is already G&S under personal protection.....

I very seriously doubt that Frosh would sue the Governor, or the Superintendent for following the state statute closer to what the MSP authority is, as opposed to the current over reach of the authority granted by State Statute and COMAR.

While the Governor is not a "gun guy" he is not ant-2A, show me one instance where he has said he is anti-2A.

 

[montoya32]

Why isn't it realistic? Why can't there be a comprehensive rewrite of the wear and carry statute that gets passed in the next three years? Thinking like the above will defenitely lead to failure, and you sound like LR, and MS when you say it.

In my opinion I think it Can happen and that is my goal, but to be realistic, I think we need to address the issues we know we share common ground with the other side on and build momentum that way. I would love for the laws to be rewritten next session but I think we all know that is unexpected.

We need to continue our path, add to the numbers of permit holders who are not committing crimes and have that as evidence that it is not all doom and gloom, Wild West results.

 

[dblas]

The best solution for lasting change is the courts' recognition and enshrinement of civil rights.

The Left figured that out decades ago, SAF has figured that out, and we need to put more focus on that.

O'Malley, the MGA, AG, Bloomberg, and DeMarco must take satisfaction in the knowledge that our 2013 rally of over 4,000 angry people in Annapolis on a cold winter day hasn't even carried over to a court challenge of the HQL. If anyone doubts that, DeMarco keeps reminding us. The frogs have already adjusted to the warmer water, while the Left looks forward to its next opportunity to crank it up more.

And going to the courts takes money, MSI is accepting donation feel free to poney up.

 

[dblas]

That was a lovely lawsuit. Resolved the issue quickly with minimal drama. I wish they all will go that easily (like Engage's!).


I'll be curious as to that answer, too. The HPRB isn't anyone's full-time job, best as I'm aware... maybe it should be?

BTW, muleskinner and schipperke (and even me) may be annoying to some folks, but I'd prefer this place have lively discussion rather than turn into an echo chamber. The cost of a good conversation is that you're gonna hear opinions you disagree with.

I don't find any of you annoying....amusing on occasion, but not annoying.

 

[LoneRanger]

And it will only take one MGA session for us to do the same in our favor, argument goes both ways.

I absolutely agree and look forward to that session....just don't see it happening with the current makeup of the MGA....something that will take a fair number of election cycles to change....if ever, so long as Maryland's gerrymandering is considered to be some of the worst in the country....the ruling class doesn't give up easily...............