Maryland Short Barrel Rifle Help

[n111tro]

IMO, trying to head off the ATF forcing new rules on you is foolish. What if they grandfather all pistol braces in and you spend $200 for nothing... or it never happens. I give those two at least a 75% chance of happening. What did the ATF eventually do? Did I miss something?

Well... I can't say for certain what the outcome will eventually be, but I've been following it and it seems like they are going to try limit the pistol braces. It's supposed to come into effect Dec of 2022. They have that damned ATF worksheet 4999 already available and my banshee absolutely would classify as an SBR by that form. I also haven't seen anything about grandfathering. They could who knows. And at any rate the pistol braces are rickety and ugly so I don't necessarily mind dropping a form one on it. I'm more pissed about this absurd 29 inch rule but I can't really do anything about that.... or the NFA for that matter. I'm just trying to solve a problem at this point.

 

[alucard0822]

My 8 inch banshee with the arm brace from tip to butt is 27 inches. I was messing around the other day and noticed one of my buffer tubes that has a CTR stock on there is longer than the buffer tube setup that is currently on the banshee. For shits and giggles I pulled the banshee upper off and put it on lower with a normal tube and the CTR stock. Obviously can't fire that way but just to pull a measurement. It came out to 28.25 inches. The banshee and a normal AR upper seem to be identical in size. So I figure if I can get a longer buffer tube to squeeze out an extra inch I will be well within the regs.

is that with a muzzle device on it? unless it is pinned/welded or otherwise permanently attached, it does not count towards the overall length measurement, stupid, I know but it's how the ATF measures it. Generally the "accepted" formulas most NFA folk use for determining OAL for AR15 based firearms are 19" + barrel length for AR15 rifle calibers/collapsible stock, this would include the CMMG RDB banshees. Blowback AR9s use 18.5 + barrel length, CMMG pattern AR22s use 17.75" + barrel length. This is why a 10.3" is generally accepted as the shortest barrel length in a rifle cal to meet 29" without an issue. A5 buffer tubes add .75-1" depending on brand. Folding adapters can add more, the Law is 1.3", but that adds an "evil feature" in MD, and can't be used with a "flash hider" or suppressor.

 

[n111tro]

Yea that's with the muzzle device. So unbelievably stupid. Ok... Well the buffer tube that one guy suggested is 1.5 inches longer and you can lengthen that further by adding thicker buttpads to the stock. Magpul has a few. Then I guess once I have the muzzle device (dead air key micro) I will permanently fix it to the barrel. That makes the barrel an extra 2.2 inches. How about that? Will that work haha? All of this is so damned ridiculous! It sounds like a bunch of work and cost but its not really. The longer buffer tube is only 40 bucks and I'm already getting the muzzle device so it'll fit my Dead Air suppressor.

 

[outrider58]

Yea that's with the muzzle device. So unbelievably stupid. Ok... Well the buffer tube that one guy suggested is 1.5 inches longer and you can lengthen that further by adding thicker buttpads to the stock. Magpul has a few. Then I guess once I have the muzzle device (dead air key micro) I will permanently fix it to the barrel. That makes the barrel an extra 2.2 inches. How about that? Will that work haha? All of this is so damned ridiculous! It sounds like a bunch of work and cost but its not really. The longer buffer tube is only 40 bucks and I'm already getting the muzzle device so it'll fit my Dead Air suppressor.

DA Key Micro gives you 2"+? Where are you measuring from? I'm thinking more like 1.5"

 

[RRomig]

I have this on on the bench and just check it on a barrel. It added 2.17 with out being clocked so over 2.2 is probable.

KeyMo Muzzle Brake | Dead Air Silencers

deadairsilencers.com

 

[Squaregrouper]

I have a CMMG banshee pistol in 9mm. It has an 8 inch barrel with an overall length of 27 inches with the arm brace fully extended. I wasn't thinking when I submitted form 1 paperwork when I stated and was 27 inches overall length and it was denied. "Overall length not MD compliant". Does this mean the gun needs to be a minimum of 29 inches? If that's the case then I guess I have to figure out a way to add an extra two inches to the length of the gun. The current buffer assembly and brace is an 1.25 inches shorter than a normal AR buffer assembly and a Magpul CTR stock. I'm trying to find either a longer buffer tube or a longer stock so that I can squeeze get an extra at least .75 inches or maybe an inch. Magpul sells thicker buttpads that are .7 inches thick but that won't get it there. Any ideas? My logic is I don't care if the stock is way longer than a normal stock because I would just collapse it down to a normal user length when I use it. The regs just say it needs to be 29 inches at least fully extended. Someone in the community has to have some experience with this.

Absolutely ridiculous I have to go through this even with a freaking ATF tax stamp. But here we are....

Where are you located? I am the poster who successfully did a >29" SBR with an 8.5" barrel. I have everything needed to get your Banshee to >29" and not look stupid. There is a thread somewhere on MDS of mine with pics. A MD compliant SBR can be done with an 8" barrel.
I will sell you my AR9 stuff at cost, as my MKE AP5 (MP5 clone) made my AR9 obsolete.
I have the extended buffer tube and a side folder adaptor. You can easily get to 29" with this.

ETA- $200 and 10 minutes of your time = problem solved.

 

[n111tro]

Where are you located? I am the poster who successfully did a >29" SBR with an 8.5" barrel. I have everything needed to get your Banshee to >29" and not look stupid. There is a thread somewhere on MDS of mine with pics. A MD compliant SBR can be done with an 8" barrel.
I will sell you my AR9 stuff at cost, as my MKE AP5 (MP5 clone) made my AR9 obsolete.
I have the extended buffer tube and a side folder adaptor. You can easily get to 29" with this.

ETA- $200 and 10 minutes of your time = problem solved.

I tried to find the pics... couldn't. In curious what it looks like.

 

[Squaregrouper]

I tried to find the pics... couldn't. In curious what it looks like.

The extended buffer and side folder adaptor I posted upthread, combined with a Magpul ACS-L stock would easily get you to 29". Please note, I did not use the extended buffer or side folder adaptor in the thread linked below.
Here is the thread...

Discussion of how to get an 8.5" Barrel SBR AR15 to 29" OAL

Hi everyone: This thread is meant as a place to discuss a topic that came up here, on page three: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=145142 Maryland law (or, at least the MSP's current interpretation of Maryland law, which many of us believe to be in error and which Engage...

www.mdshooters.com

 

[Worsley]

A5 buffer tube is .75" longer than M4, can just use a 1" plastic solid rod to make a spacer if you don't want to use an A5 buffer. Going off some measurements, assuming this is the SBA3 CMMG uses on an m4 tube, that is 9.5" long from the rear of the reciver. Magpul MOE SL on M4 tube is 11.25", my 2A armament enhanced A5 tube and MOE SL is 12.25"(UBR2 is 12.125"). Receivers are 7.75", with an extension in rifle calibers and RDB add the length of the barrel, in blowback 9mm subtract .5" from the barrel length.

So 12.25" A5 tube/MOE SL + 7.75 receiver + 8" barrel = 28", would need a permanently attached muzzle device or longer barrel. Checking my math and measurements, should only be 25.25" OAL with the SBA3 and an 8" RDB barrel, are you counting a muzzle device to get 27"?

Add a law tactical folder n

 

[babalou]

DA Key Micro gives you 2"+? Where are you measuring from? I'm thinking more like 1.5"

from the anus and not the pubic bone? lol

 

[jrumann59]

IMO, trying to head off the ATF forcing new rules on you is foolish. What if they grandfather all pistol braces in and you spend $200 for nothing... or it never happens. I give those two at least a 75% chance of happening. What did the ATF eventually do? Did I miss something?

If the score card regulation goes into effect pretty much most aluminum AR pistols with braces will be SBRs, lets also consider Biden's ATF nominee has been confirmed.

 

[outrider58]

I have this on on the bench and just check it on a barrel. It added 2.17 with out being clocked so over 2.2 is probable.

KeyMo Muzzle Brake | Dead Air Silencers

deadairsilencers.com

And that measurement was taken above the threads? That Mod looks different than the one that came up in my search.

 

[RRomig]

And that measurement was taken above the threads? That Mod looks different than the one that came up in my search.

Yep above threads and measured with dial caliber. Obviously barrel adapters vary and I think this one is on the long side.

 

[n111tro]

The extended buffer and side folder adaptor I posted upthread, combined with a Magpul ACS-L stock would easily get you to 29". Please note, I did not use the extended buffer or side folder adaptor in the thread linked below.
Here is the thread...

Discussion of how to get an 8.5" Barrel SBR AR15 to 29" OAL

Hi everyone: This thread is meant as a place to discuss a topic that came up here, on page three: http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=145142 Maryland law (or, at least the MSP's current interpretation of Maryland law, which many of us believe to be in error and which Engage...

www.mdshooters.com

I went through and found the pictures. I did look at that buttstock with the .7 thick pad. Your barrel is 8.5. Mine is 8. So I would absolutely have to use the extended buffer tube. I don't think I want to go the folder route. I will do some experiments and sort it. I do appreciate all the advice I got in here. It definitely gave me plenty of options. Also I had no idea it had to be from the damned threads of the muzzle device unless its pinned. Its secured on there with freaking rockset, its not like its coming off. So stupid that's not enough.

 

[outrider58]

Yep above threads and measured with dial caliber. Obviously barrel adapters vary and I think this one is on the long side.

I don't think that will work for 9mm

 

[n111tro]

I don't think that will work for 9mm

View attachment 372580

I am getting the KeyMicro brake which is 9mm and compatible with the Wolfman. And you're right. It's more like adding 1.5 in length. Total length is 2.2 or something close to it.

 

[RRomig]

It’s weird because they list the keymo as working with the nomad , primal and wolfman but the muzzle adapters seem to stop at 338 cal. My primal is on a 350 legend and I had the 30 cal muzzle adapter so I just reamed it out. But to buy another can adapter isn’t cheap so if you needed more the longer buffer tube is better.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Well... I can't say for certain what the outcome will eventually be, but I've been following it and it seems like they are going to try limit the pistol braces.... I'm just trying to solve a problem at this point.

Trying to avoid what the ATF might do in the future is like committing suicide for fear of death!

1. You have no idea if the ATF will push any of it threw.
2. If they do push it threw, how do you know they will not change what they want by then making you further problems.
3. Maybe they grandfather you, saving you money and effort.
4. Maybe they ban what you make.
5. Maybe the confiscate it all, making it more of a loss.
6. Maybe a SCOTUS makes it a moot point.
The list goes on and on.

A perfect example is all the people who immediately went to get MD serial numbers on their home made guns. Now those serials will not work for the federal law and some guns only have enough space for one number. Now these guns have a serious issue. All because someone had to run out and do something in a month that they had a year to do!

If thats the thing worrying you, your life is not complicated enough. Go have another kid or girl friend or something. Joking but serious.

 

[n111tro]

Trying to avoid what the ATF might do in the future is like committing suicide for fear of death!

1. You have no idea if the ATF will push any of it threw.
2. If they do push it threw, how do you know they will not change what they want by then making you further problems.
3. Maybe they grandfather you, saving you money and effort.
4. Maybe they ban what you make.
5. Maybe the confiscate it all, making it more of a loss.
6. Maybe a SCOTUS makes it a moot point.
The list goes on and on.

A perfect example is all the people who immediately went to get MD serial numbers on their home made guns. Now those serials will not work for the federal law and some guns only have enough space for one number. Now these guns have a serious issue. All because someone had to run out and do something in a month that they had a year to do!

If thats the thing worrying you, your life is not complicated enough. Go have another kid or girl friend or something. Joking but serious.

Haha. That is an awesome response. Like I said early on I already dropped the form 1 once about 6 months ago because I assumed they would try something like this. And frankly a proper buttstock is more comfortable. Then my form 1 was denied because I forgot about the 29 inch rule. Then I kinda forgot about it because it slipped in priority. I saw the form 4999 emerge and it reminded me oh I need to figure out the 29 inch rule. Here we are. All these nice folks provided me with solutions. I would say in the event they do pass that shit and our stuff isn't grandfathered all I you gotta do is pull the brace off and just have the exposed buffer tube like everyone did prior to the arm braces. No panic my man. Just trying to stay ahead of the influx of form 1s.

 

[n111tro]

It’s weird because they list the keymo as working with the nomad , primal and wolfman but the muzzle adapters seem to stop at 338 cal. My primal is on a 350 legend and I had the 30 cal muzzle adapter so I just reamed it out. But to buy another can adapter isn’t cheap so if you needed more the longer buffer tube is better.

I originally intended to get the wolfman to run with the PCC I'm trying to SBR, so I was always going to get the keymicro adapter. At the time I bought my wolfman, dead air was running a big rebate so I picked up the Keymicro adapter for basically free. Then they opened up all of Maryland for straight wall cartridges for deer hunting. I decided grab a 350 legend upper to use on one of my AR lowers. Might as well right? Way more accurate than 12 gauge sabots. I saw that the wolfman can run 350 legend... perfect. I no longer have to have ringing ears when I go hunting.