Maryland Short Barrel Rifle Help

[n111tro]

I have a CMMG banshee pistol in 9mm. It has an 8 inch barrel with an overall length of 27 inches with the arm brace fully extended. I wasn't thinking when I submitted form 1 paperwork when I stated and was 27 inches overall length and it was denied. "Overall length not MD compliant". Does this mean the gun needs to be a minimum of 29 inches? If that's the case then I guess I have to figure out a way to add an extra two inches to the length of the gun. The current buffer assembly and brace is an 1.25 inches shorter than a normal AR buffer assembly and a Magpul CTR stock. I'm trying to find either a longer buffer tube or a longer stock so that I can squeeze get an extra at least .75 inches or maybe an inch. Magpul sells thicker buttpads that are .7 inches thick but that won't get it there. Any ideas? My logic is I don't care if the stock is way longer than a normal stock because I would just collapse it down to a normal user length when I use it. The regs just say it needs to be 29 inches at least fully extended. Someone in the community has to have some experience with this.

Absolutely ridiculous I have to go through this even with a freaking ATF tax stamp. But here we are....

 

[ICW2019]

I have a CMMG banshee pistol in 9mm. It has an 8 inch barrel with an overall length of 27 inches with the arm brace fully extended. I wasn't thinking when I submitted form 1 paperwork when I stated and was 27 inches overall length and it was denied. "Overall length not MD compliant". Does this mean the gun needs to be a minimum of 29 inches? If that's the case then I guess I have to figure out a way to add an extra two inches to the length of the gun. The current buffer assembly and brace is an 1.25 inches shorter than a normal AR buffer assembly and a Magpul CTR stock. I'm trying to find either a longer buffer tube or a longer stock so that I can squeeze get an extra at least .75 inches or maybe an inch. Magpul sells thicker buttpads that are .7 inches thick but that won't get it there. Any ideas? My logic is I don't care if the stock is way longer than a normal stock because I would just collapse it down to a normal user length when I use it. The regs just say it needs to be 29 inches at least fully extended. Someone in the community has to have some experience with this.

Absolutely ridiculous I have to go through this even with a freaking ATF tax stamp. But here we are....

Limited experience here but why cant you use a normal rifle buffer tube and collapsible stock setup with the pistol buffer and spring assembly?

 

[Squaregrouper]

I successfully did it with an 8.5" barrel.
Get this buffer tube, it gives an extra 1.5" itself. https://justrightcarbines.com/product/long-buffer-tube/?v=7516fd43adaa
Pick a stock that has extension pads available.

 

[n111tro]

I successfully did it with an 8.5" barrel.
Get this buffer tube, it gives an extra 1.5" itself. https://justrightcarbines.com/product/long-buffer-tube/?v=7516fd43adaa
Pick a stock that has extension pads available.

Interesting.. did you have any issues with the buffer spring and weight with the longer tube?

 

[outrider58]

An average AR SBR needs a barrel length of around 10.5" be it a 5.56/.223, 300 black, etc.
There are a few gyrations one could go through to attain that magical 29" overall length with slightly shorter barrels.

An average PCC SBR usually requires an 11.5" barrel as a starting point. There are also gyrations one can go through to make length as well. 3" is quite a bit to overcome though.

Search for extra long buffer tubes, butt pad extensions(thicker pads), and or muzzle devices. A muzzle device must be either silver soldered to the barrel or pinned and welded(the pin) to the barrel.

 

[n111tro]

An average AR SBR needs a barrel length of around 10.5" be it a 5.56/.223, 300 black, etc.
There are a few gyrations one could go through to attain that magical 29" overall length with slightly shorter barrels.

An average PCC SBR usually requires an 11.5" barrel as a starting point. There are also gyrations one can go through to make length as well. 3" is quite a bit to overcome though.

Search for extra long buffer tubes, butt pad extensions(thicker pads), and or muzzle devices. A muzzle device must be either silver soldered to the barrel or pinned and welded(the pin) to the barrel.

Does pinning the muzzle device mitigate the need for the 29 inches? Honestly I haven't bought any new rifles like ARs or AKs since the ban so I am not totally clear on all the rules. I wasn't really going to even bother with doing the form 1 route with this pistol until I suspected that the ATF was going to try and do what they eventually did with pistol braces. I wanted to run a dead air key micro brake because I currently have a dead air wolfman in ATF jail at the moment. Its the length of the current brake that comes with the CMMG banshee. All I need to do is squeeze and extra two inches out of it.

 

[outrider58]

Does pinning the muzzle device mitigate the need for the 29 inches? Honestly I haven't bought any new rifles like ARs or AKs since the ban so I am not totally clear on all the rules. I wasn't really going to even bother with doing the form 1 route with this pistol until I suspected that the ATF was going to try and do what they eventually did with pistol braces. I wanted to run a dead air key micro brake because I currently have a dead air wolfman in ATF jail at the moment. Its the length of the current brake that comes with the CMMG banshee. All I need to do is squeeze and extra two inches out of it.

Only if it helps you achieve the needed length. By pinning and welding, you are physically adding to the permanent barrel length.

Barrel Extender - 9mm - 4.5 inch - (1/2 x 28)

retrorifles.com

 

[BigRick]

Does pinning the muzzle device mitigate the need for the 29 inches? Honestly I haven't bought any new rifles like ARs or AKs since the ban so I am not totally clear on all the rules. I wasn't really going to even bother with doing the form 1 route with this pistol until I suspected that the ATF was going to try and do what they eventually did with pistol braces. I wanted to run a dead air key micro brake because I currently have a dead air wolfman in ATF jail at the moment. Its the length of the current brake that comes with the CMMG banshee. All I need to do is squeeze and extra two inches out of it.

No. By pinning and welding the muzzle device you lengthen the overall barrel length. Like others have posted you need a 10.5" barrel to hit 29". There is zero way around this as it is part of the Laws we deal with in MD. The only way to avoid it is to move to a free state!

 

[n111tro]

Wait... does that 29 inches have to be with the buttstock fully extended or when its fully collapsed. I have an SBR with a 10.5 and when the buttstock is fully extended its 32 inches long. I was going off of fully extended because the form 1 said that's where you make the measurement.

 

[outrider58]

Wait... does that 29 inches have to be with the buttstock fully extended or when its fully collapsed. I have an SBR with a 10.5 and when the buttstock is fully extended its 32 inches long. I was going off of fully extended because the form 1 said that's where you make the measurement.

Yes. Stock fully extended. That's why longer buffer tube add to overall length. Also, Magpul makes thicker butt pads for many of their carbine stocks. Check at Amazon or elsewhere.

 

[RRomig]

Fully extended stock and no removable extensions on barrel for overall length measurements. A pin and welded muzzle device would be allowed for overall measurements. For the longer buffer tube I have added a slug of aluminum in the tube to make internal measurement match existing tube.

 

[n111tro]

I figured... I think the longer buffer tube and a CTR stock with the thicker pad might just get me there. I appreciate the advice. Then just run it collapsed so it doesn't look/feel weird.

 

[RRomig]

No. By pinning and welding the muzzle device you lengthen the overall barrel length. Like others have posted you need a 10.5" barrel to hit 29". There is zero way around this as it is part of the Laws we deal with in MD. The only way to avoid it is to move to a free state!

The last gun I added a long buffer to was 10.5 but that was a bare barrel. With pin and weld I think it can be done with shorter than 10.5 but it’d probably end up being a cut and thread custom length ?
Edit: just check a dead air brake muzzle adapter and it adds about 2 1/4”. So it really is going to be close with a 8.5 barrel

 

[brianns]

I figured... I think the longer buffer tube and a CTR stock with the thicker pad might just get me there. I appreciate the advice. Then just run it collapsed so it doesn't look/feel weird.

That’s my vote. That way your barrel can remain threaded and available for suppressors and things or changing when you want.

 

[Squaregrouper]

Interesting.. did you have any issues with the buffer spring and weight with the longer tube?

It has a void inside the tube, so standard buffers and springs can be used.

 

[alucard0822]

A5 buffer tube is .75" longer than M4, can just use a 1" plastic solid rod to make a spacer if you don't want to use an A5 buffer. Going off some measurements, assuming this is the SBA3 CMMG uses on an m4 tube, that is 9.5" long from the rear of the reciver. Magpul MOE SL on M4 tube is 11.25", my 2A armament enhanced A5 tube and MOE SL is 12.25"(UBR2 is 12.125"). Receivers are 7.75", with an extension in rifle calibers and RDB add the length of the barrel, in blowback 9mm subtract .5" from the barrel length.

So 12.25" A5 tube/MOE SL + 7.75 receiver + 8" barrel = 28", would need a permanently attached muzzle device or longer barrel. Checking my math and measurements, should only be 25.25" OAL with the SBA3 and an 8" RDB barrel, are you counting a muzzle device to get 27"?

 

[jrumann59]

Because of the math that is why I am going 10.5 on PHoney Badger build and pin and welding a can on it.

 

[babalou]

Because of the math that is why I am going 10.5 on PHoney Badger build and pin and welding a can on it.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

.... I wasn't really going to even bother with doing the form 1 route with this pistol until I suspected that the ATF was going to try and do what they eventually did with pistol braces. ....

IMO, trying to head off the ATF forcing new rules on you is foolish. What if they grandfather all pistol braces in and you spend $200 for nothing... or it never happens. I give those two at least a 75% chance of happening. What did the ATF eventually do? Did I miss something?

 

[n111tro]

A5 buffer tube is .75" longer than M4, can just use a 1" plastic solid rod to make a spacer if you don't want to use an A5 buffer. Going off some measurements, assuming this is the SBA3 CMMG uses on an m4 tube, that is 9.5" long from the rear of the reciver. Magpul MOE SL on M4 tube is 11.25", my 2A armament enhanced A5 tube and MOE SL is 12.25"(UBR2 is 12.125"). Receivers are 7.75", with an extension in rifle calibers and RDB add the length of the barrel, in blowback 9mm subtract .5" from the barrel length.

So 12.25" A5 tube/MOE SL + 7.75 receiver + 8" barrel = 28", would need a permanently attached muzzle device or longer barrel. Checking my math and measurements, should only be 25.25" OAL with the SBA3 and an 8" RDB barrel, are you counting a muzzle device to get 27"?

My 8 inch banshee with the arm brace from tip to butt is 27 inches. I was messing around the other day and noticed one of my buffer tubes that has a CTR stock on there is longer than the buffer tube setup that is currently on the banshee. For shits and giggles I pulled the banshee upper off and put it on lower with a normal tube and the CTR stock. Obviously can't fire that way but just to pull a measurement. It came out to 28.25 inches. The banshee and a normal AR upper seem to be identical in size. So I figure if I can get a longer buffer tube to squeeze out an extra inch I will be well within the regs.