Man Up Monday - Sine Die Edition

[Biggfoot44]

does anyone know if the lead hunting ammo ban passed ?

Nope

 

[Biggfoot44]

Thanks for clarifying. They should sack whoever wrote the summary.

Sack ? Heck , get promoted for it . Vague and misleading is a Goal , not a Glitch .

 

[Biggfoot44]

I thought Maryland already had a law on the books forbidding any device that increased the 'rate of fire' i.e. trigger cranks etc.
What does this law forbid the other one doesn't already?

Absolutely nothing .
And further totally redundant to NFA .

Political exhibitionism in reaction to drivel news stories at its finest .

 

[Biggfoot44]

It added the specific device to the list in that law.

Still pointless , as it already was covered under the definitions of the referenced previous law .

( But if MGA is bound to do something, it is better for them to distract themselves on the pointless and redundant, that actually do nothing. )

 

[rbird7282]

HB0947/SB0488 seems nuts. What's the definition of a "Public Nuisance"? Sounds like this becomes a wide open trap to go after anything for any reason.

They’ll know it when they see it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rbird7282]

HB0810 - among other things, mandatory minimum 5 years for a switch. They take away some of the judge's discretion, but the prosecutors will probably drop this charge for gang members anyway.

Yeah just like the mandatory 5 or 10 years for committing a crime with a firearm that was in FSA2013, I have yet to see a case where it’s been prosecuted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Growler215]

Yeah just like the mandatory 5 or 10 years for committing a crime with a firearm that was in FSA2013, I have yet to see a case where it’s been prosecuted


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I guess it's too hard to get re-elected if all of your constituents are in jail.

 

[dblas]

We need one of our 2A lawyers and/or MSI experts to chime in here. I read it differently. For easy reference, the text:

Prohibiting firearm industry members from knowingly creating, maintaining, or contributing to a public nuisance through the sale, manufacture, distribution, importation, or marketing of a firearm-related product under certain circumstances; requiring a firearm industry member to establish and implement certain reasonable controls regarding the sale, manufacture, distribution, importation, marketing, possession, and use of certain firearm-related products; authorizing certain civil actions for violations of the Act; etc.

I read this as the "industry members" were the source of the nuisance through their business/activities.

That is the short description, not the actual verbiage of the law. Read the rest of the bill to understand what it is doing.

 

[dblas]

does anyone know if the lead hunting ammo ban passed ?

Nope, didn't pass.

 

[emerald]

That is the short description, not the actual verbiage of the law. Read the rest of the bill to understand what it is doing.

Once I found the link, I did. Still think they could have done a better job writing the description. Regardless, it's terrible legislation at many levels. Somewhat fitting it has a poor summary.

 

[dblas]

Once I found the link, I did. Still think they could have done a better job writing the description. Regardless, it's terrible legislation at many levels. Somewhat fitting it has a poor summary.

The description is a short version, not the actual law. It is the one thing that does not change with any/all of the amendments that may get applied to a bill.

It makes it real easy to understand what the original intent of the bill is/was.
Reading the actual bill language (statute changes) tell you what is actually going to happen.

 

[emerald]

The description is a short version, not the actual law. It is the one thing that does not change with any/all of the amendments that may get applied to a bill.

It makes it real easy to understand what the original intent of the bill is/was.
Reading the actual bill language (statute changes) tell you what is actually going to happen.

What's your take on how this will shake out for us? I know it's complete speculation, but thinking with your experience, you have a much better understanding of how laws like this play out. Do you see online retailers refusing to ship guns, ammunition, etc. to MD? Local shops unable to risk the liability and closing up shop?

 

[dblas]

I don't think it will do much at first, especially in light of fact that they added mens rea to the requirement...

"A FIREARM INDUSTRY MEMBER MAY NOT KNOWINGLY CREAT, MAINTAIN, OR CONTRIBUTE TO HARM TO THE PUBLIC THROUGH THE SALE, MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTION, IMPORTATION, OR MARKETING OF A FIREARM–RELATED PRODUCT BY ENGAGING IN CONDUCT THAT IS: (1) UNLAWFUL; OR 30 (2) UNREASONABLE UNDER THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES"

It will be hard to prove that a dealer 'knowingly" did something unlawful or unreasonable.

It will also be interesting to see what the MDAG and MSP come up with from their study.

 

[emerald]

I don't think it will do much at first, especially in light of fact that they added mens rea to the requirement...

"A FIREARM INDUSTRY MEMBER MAY NOT KNOWINGLY CREAT, MAINTAIN, OR CONTRIBUTE TO HARM TO THE PUBLIC THROUGH THE SALE, MANUFACTURE, DISTRIBUTION, IMPORTATION, OR MARKETING OF A FIREARM–RELATED PRODUCT BY ENGAGING IN CONDUCT THAT IS: (1) UNLAWFUL; OR 30 (2) UNREASONABLE UNDER THE TOTALITY OF THE CIRCUMSTANCES"

It will be hard to prove that a dealer 'knowingly" did something unlawful or unreasonable.

It will also be interesting to see what the MDAG and MSP come up with from their study.

I read that - "MAY NOT KNOWINGLY" - and wanted to think that was our glimmer of hope, but I also thought we couldn't be that lucky. Maybe I'll be able to keep dinner down after all - thanks for the analysis!

 

[Phoenix_1295]

I read that - "MAY NOT KNOWINGLY" - and wanted to think that was our glimmer of hope, but I also thought we couldn't be that lucky. Maybe I'll be able to keep dinner down after all - thanks for the analysis!

The up-side is that your legitimate LGS operators are already doing what the law requires regarding not selling to straw purchasers or prohibited individuals, complying with federal laws, not selling for known criminal intent, etc., so like @dblas said, likely not to have any significant impact on the legitimate businesses.

 

[emerald]

The up-side is that your legitimate LGS operators are already doing what the law requires regarding not selling to straw purchasers or prohibited individuals, complying with federal laws, not selling for known criminal intent, etc., so like @dblas said, likely not to have any significant impact on the legitimate businesses.

One of the many things that gets me about legislation of this type is the good guys are already doing what they should, and in that aspect, laws like this really aren't necessary, and the bad guys don't care and will do what they always have.

A part that concerns me is:

A PARTY SEEKING RELIEF UNDER THIS SECTION IS NOT
REQUIRED TO PROVE THAT A FIREARM INDUSTRY MEMBER ACTED WITH THE INTENT
TO VIOLATE THIS SUBTITLE.

Which seems in contradiction to:

A FIREARM INDUSTRY MEMBER MAY NOT KNOWINGLY CREATE,
MAINTAIN, OR CONTRIBUTE TO HARM

That struck me like you could still get charged and found liable, even if you did all the right things.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I guess it's too hard to get re-elected if all of your constituents are in jail.

You think you're joking .

But when you include all the relatives , plus if they behave themselves at home , all their neighbors who think of little Johnny who shoveled their snow 10 years ago . It adds up to a voting block in say , Baltimore or inner PG Co .

 

[Growler215]

You think you're joking .

But when you include all the relatives , plus if they behave themselves at home , all their neighbors who think of little Johnny who shoveled their snow 10 years ago . It adds up to a voting block in say , Baltimore or inner PG Co .

Not to mention all of the other hoodlums who would think, "that could be me next time."

Same reason why the MGA won't make stealing a firearm a felony - people might start to expect gun thefts to be prosecuted as felonies.

 

[44 Bulldog]

They figure they won't need any of those other laws if they can run every brand, store, and FFL out of the state in the first place, and make every manufacturer treat MD like a no-go zone for any sort of shipment, ever. And they just passed a law with that very outcome in mind.

I always thought that Democrats were incompetent people, now I realize they are just evil.

 

[Slackdaddy]

thanks , that's great news !

They will be back next year, trust me.
They got caught flat footed,, thinking a "Lead-Free Bullet" will fit in any gun.
They literally had zero idea there was Shotgun slugs, MLer sabotted bullets, High powered center fire, SWC, Pistol caliber SWC, Rimfire .22 etc.
They brought an example of a Center fire highpower round and said "Look, copper bullets"

The real issue is,, there is ZERO evidence there is a problem with lead to eagle/predator poisening in Maryland, with Marylands style of hunting