Squaregrouper
Kragaphile
His marking does not meet the requirements in Maryland's new law.Why can't you take it as-is the the state police and have them record it? It sounds as if you already meet the marking requirement in the law for content.
His marking does not meet the requirements in Maryland's new law.Why can't you take it as-is the the state police and have them record it? It sounds as if you already meet the marking requirement in the law for content.
If it meets ATF standards Go on Md state police web site and do the voluntary registration.Well mine already has my city and state , my full name not just initials and a unique number I sent out to have professionally engraved to ATF spec and actually to the California requirements (although California has to issue you a serial number) prior to milling it out a year ago just in case Maryland did this. Plus I have model, caliber, etc engraved to make it look official. I keep hearing mixed opinions on this. I was told by someone I just have to fill out a 77R and use the serial number I put on it. I guess the big question I'd does city and state suffice as location or does it absolutely need the zip code? In the ATF and California specifications, it's city and state. Or most other places that regulate this. Nobody ever puts a zip code on their recievers. Trouble is I'm not sure what to do because the new law targets unserialized recievers. Mine are but just not officially on any books. And I did this just in case they were regulated in the future and allows identification marks to law enforcement if lost or stolen . And this was all done before any law on them was passed. Thinking about it more, an FFL marking it with another serial number might be a Grey area. Or if my serial number was obliterated for a new one, then thats a big Grey area for me and the business doing the work. Or I'm not sure if I should try to fill out a 77R with my current serial number and see if goes through? Or would that risk legal trouble doing that?
What's the worst that could happen? It could be denied? Do I need a HQL to fill out the 77R? This not a handgun nor is a regulated firearm per SB 281. The MSP website contradicts itself and says all 77R forms require an HQL but then says the HQL is only required if it's a handgun.If it meets ATF standards Go on Md state police web site and do the voluntary registration.
ATF says:But thinking about it, really adding another serial number or changing the serial number even if not a registered serial number is possible a violation of federal law. Or at the least a big Grey area. So I maybe better if seeing if the paperwork will go through as it with the serial number I put on it.
I have had many C&R's over the years that had the importers SN engraved in them.ATF says:
§ 478.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.
No person shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
Note the regulation is silent about forbidding additional markings.
IIRC importers have, from time to time, added serial numbers of their own to imported firearms that already had identifying marks, including serial numbers.
Maybe one of our resident lawyers can chime in, but I see nothing in the ATF regs forbidding someone who happens to hold an FFL01, 07, or 08 from adding more markings to a firearm for state compliance purposes, as long as doing so wouldn't affect existing ATF-mandated markings.
Very true. But this isn't an imported weapon. It's never changed hands, gone through a importer, a dealer, or a manufacturer other than me.ATF says:
§ 478.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.
No person shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
Note the regulation is silent about forbidding additional markings.
IIRC importers have, from time to time, added serial numbers of their own to imported firearms that already had identifying marks, including serial numbers.
Maybe one of our resident lawyers can chime in, but I see nothing in the ATF regs forbidding someone who happens to hold an FFL01, 07, or 08 from adding more markings to a firearm for state compliance purposes, as long as doing so wouldn't affect existing ATF-mandated markings.
Zip code is more specific than city and state and is only 5 digits in its basic form, which is useful when the length of the engraved legend must be fitted into a small panel on a small object. Also in databases, it is a searchable object. Having more than one serial number is no problem, each is tied to a regulated article and to the name of the person buying (or building, as the case here applies) the firearm.Very true. But this isn't an imported weapon. It's never changed hands, gone through a importer, a dealer, or a manufacturer other than me.
The problem with two serial numbers is then if the gun comes under question...which one is the serial number? Would you have it engraved to indicate the second serial number is for the State of Maryland? And could it still be considered altering the original serial number by adding an extra serial number that causes confusion? I don't know. Or intent to change the serial number of the gun?
I'm still wondering if I can just use the serial number I already have. The numbers I've used are not on any of other firearms and they were marked well before this law came about . Along with that, they were already serialized at the time this law took effect and therefore were not unserialized. Thinking about just filling out the 77R for one of them and see if it goes through. And if it's denied and I need a second serial number so be it. I don't know if City and State is fine instead of the zip code. The zip code is a weird one. Don't know why or who came up with that. Zip codes are used mostly for mail. ATF specifications is City and State.
My G19 build looks good, runs great and has a s/n that MD thinks is now non-compliant. I spent hundreds of hours polishing and fitting parts on that build. I'm not destroying it.Moral dilemma, I want to destroy my first AR because it just looks like shit, but will run like a boss! As a woodworker I have destroyed many products that simply didn’t make it through R&D so in that respect it’s toast. ??
Not really. That was a corollary benefit. The main benefit was that you could have a platform that had features not available on a commercially-sourced completed platform and that could be built with a selected group of aftermarket parts that weren't replacing discarded stock parts or that didn't require costly modifications to stock parts.The whole point of 80% receivers was to avoid government registration and, ultimately, confiscation.
If I had an 80% firearm, which I do not, I'd keep it somewhere safe and keep my mouth shut.
My G19 build looks good, runs great and has a s/n that MD thinks is now non-compliant. I spent hundreds of hours polishing and fitting parts on that build. I'm not destroying it
If it’s ATF compliant voluntary registration is available with no hql needed.Not really. That was a corollary benefit. The main benefit was that you could have a platform that had features not available on a commercially-sourced completed platform and that could be built with a selected group of aftermarket parts that weren't replacing discarded stock parts or that didn't require costly modifications to stock parts.
I'm tired of hearing that. When it was built and serialized the ATF DID NOT REQUIRE PMF's to be serialized. Unless something has changed since they published their notice, the ATF DOES NOT REQUIRE PMF's to be serialized or registered.If it’s ATF compliant voluntary registration is available with no hql needed.
I’m curious about said features.
Your misunderstanding what I’m saying. My reference to ATF compliance has zero to do with PMFs. The compliance I am referring to is the size , depth and material it’s engraved in of the serial number. As in a sharpie written serial number on the stock isn’t ATF compliant. Hope we’re on the same page now.I'm tired of hearing that. When it was built and serialized the ATF DID NOT REQUIRE PMF's to be serialized. Unless something has changed since they published their notice, the ATF DOES NOT REQUIRE PMF's to be serialized or registered.
Please quote the ATF rule that requires PMFs to be serialized.
Yeah. I should just stay out of these threads.Your misunderstanding what I’m saying. My reference to ATF compliance has zero to do with PMFs. The compliance I am referring to is the size , depth and material it’s engraved in of the serial number. As in a sharpie written serial number on the stock isn’t ATF compliant. Hope we’re on the same page now.