Squaregrouper
Kragaphile
His marking does not meet the requirements in Maryland's new law.
List of FFL's doing SN engraving
- Thread starter gtodave
- Start date
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If it meets ATF standards Go on Md state police web site and do the voluntary registration.
What's the worst that could happen? It could be denied? Do I need a HQL to fill out the 77R? This not a handgun nor is a regulated firearm per SB 281. The MSP website contradicts itself and says all 77R forms require an HQL but then says the HQL is only required if it's a handgun.
But thinking about it, really adding another serial number or changing the serial number even if not a registered serial number is possible a violation of federal law. Or at the least a big Grey area. So I maybe better if seeing if the paperwork will go through as it with the serial number I put on it.
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PLEASE Mr. Alligator, eat me last.
- Nov 11, 2009
- 31,225
The whole point of 80% receivers was to avoid government registration and, ultimately, confiscation.
If I had an 80% firearm, which I do not, I'd keep it somewhere safe and keep my mouth shut.
If I had an 80% firearm, which I do not, I'd keep it somewhere safe and keep my mouth shut.
ATF says:
§ 478.34 Removed, obliterated, or altered serial number.
No person shall knowingly transport, ship, or receive in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
Note the regulation is silent about forbidding additional markings.
IIRC importers have, from time to time, added serial numbers of their own to imported firearms that already had identifying marks, including serial numbers.
Maybe one of our resident lawyers can chime in, but I see nothing in the ATF regs forbidding someone who happens to hold an FFL01, 07, or 08 from adding more markings to a firearm for state compliance purposes, as long as doing so wouldn't affect existing ATF-mandated markings.
I have had many C&R's over the years that had the importers SN engraved in them.
Very true. But this isn't an imported weapon. It's never changed hands, gone through a importer, a dealer, or a manufacturer other than me.
The problem with two serial numbers is then if the gun comes under question...which one is the serial number? Would you have it engraved to indicate the second serial number is for the State of Maryland? And could it still be considered altering the original serial number by adding an extra serial number that causes confusion? I don't know. Or intent to change the serial number of the gun?
I'm still wondering if I can just use the serial number I already have. The numbers I've used are not on any of other firearms and they were marked well before this law came about . Along with that, they were already serialized at the time this law took effect and therefore were not unserialized. Thinking about just filling out the 77R for one of them and see if it goes through. And if it's denied and I need a second serial number so be it. I don't know if City and State is fine instead of the zip code. The zip code is a weird one. Don't know why or who came up with that. Zip codes are used mostly for mail. ATF specifications is City and State.
FHJ69
Active Member
Question - Do y'all think a non-FFL holder (pending) can engrave 80% before any work was done to them? I know that this idea will be moot soon, but is it good at this time?
Zip code is more specific than city and state and is only 5 digits in its basic form, which is useful when the length of the engraved legend must be fitted into a small panel on a small object. Also in databases, it is a searchable object. Having more than one serial number is no problem, each is tied to a regulated article and to the name of the person buying (or building, as the case here applies) the firearm.
I might have a lead on somewhere else that does firearms engraving. Hanover Armory in Hanover, MD. They do engraving but contacted them and they said they will do it but have been told by MSP to "wait for further guidance". I did try to contact MSP and while they were somewhat helpful, I think they too are waiting for clarification on this law. Just kinda got the run around and basically sent me the law to read. Very confusing language cause they omitted language in some parts and how it reads with the omitted language. For example, something to the effect "that the serial number should be three followed by another number". I basically couldn't get a yes or no about my reciever already being serialized. Honestly they should make an exception for it because some people do engrave their recievers and the ATF original stance was they reccomended it but wasn't required. I'd honestly wait on engraving until every one has figured it all out. No sense in paying money just to have to do it again cause it's wrong.
The 77R is a little confusing to fill out because it deals focuses on regulated weapons and handguns. And assumes it's a handgun and you need your HQL. My builds are not handguns nor regulated firearms.
The 77R is a little confusing to fill out because it deals focuses on regulated weapons and handguns. And assumes it's a handgun and you need your HQL. My builds are not handguns nor regulated firearms.
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I’m going to ask the FFL in Edgewater about it, MD kicked back one of my 77R’s because I put self-employed as an occupation lol. However, that worked for the carry permit … just jumping through the hoops.
Moral dilemma, I want to destroy my first AR because it just looks like shit, but will run like a boss! As a woodworker I have destroyed many products that simply didn’t make it through R&D so in that respect it’s toast. ??
Moral dilemma, I want to destroy my first AR because it just looks like shit, but will run like a boss! As a woodworker I have destroyed many products that simply didn’t make it through R&D so in that respect it’s toast. ??
My G19 build looks good, runs great and has a s/n that MD thinks is now non-compliant. I spent hundreds of hours polishing and fitting parts on that build. I'm not destroying it.
Not really. That was a corollary benefit. The main benefit was that you could have a platform that had features not available on a commercially-sourced completed platform and that could be built with a selected group of aftermarket parts that weren't replacing discarded stock parts or that didn't require costly modifications to stock parts.
If it’s ATF compliant voluntary registration is available with no hql needed.
I’m curious about said features.
I'm tired of hearing that. When it was built and serialized the ATF DID NOT REQUIRE PMF's to be serialized. Unless something has changed since they published their notice, the ATF DOES NOT REQUIRE PMF's to be serialized or registered.
Please quote the ATF rule that requires PMFs to be serialized.
Your misunderstanding what I’m saying. My reference to ATF compliance has zero to do with PMFs. The compliance I am referring to is the size , depth and material it’s engraved in of the serial number. As in a sharpie written serial number on the stock isn’t ATF compliant. Hope we’re on the same page now.
For the AR lower people the 77r voluntary registration is also valid. You are just registering the Lower.
