List of FFL's doing SN engraving

[mac1_131]

Because it is sort of in between. It has "new" way engraving, but FFL doing the engraving did not put it into bound book. I guess it is a little unclear what to do in such situation.

That's weird. Sounds like it's his problem.

I dunno, you're under no obligation to register when marked that way under the law.

If it were me, I would not register it. You did your part. The law only requires it if marked the other way.

IANAL.

 

[Kharn]

Why would you do a 77r?

Not required if marked the "new" way with FFL number. Only required if marked the "old" way with maryland style number.

Maybe the receipt wording is a leftover from when the law first came out and the MD way was the only way. The receipt is a print out that states the serials that were engraved, my name, etc, not a simple "X guns engraved for $Y."

After reading up on it more, I'm leaning towards if they didn't follow the regs and enter them into their book, that's their problem, not mine. It's not like I watch the FFL fill out the disposition side of the book when I buy a gun either.

 

[1841DNG]

Friend of mine asked if I knew anyone in the eastern panhandle of WV or one of the border counties in PA doing this for us. I said I'd not built anything myself but I would ask online. Anyone know of any shops doing this?

 

[Blue Customworks]

Hello, I can answer these concerns.

ATF requires all FFLs that engrave a serial number on a gun to log into their A&D books. The reason is simple, if that gun is found in a crime, ATF identifies the FFL with the first 8 digits, contacts that FFL and asks them who they serialized the gun for. ATF doesn't care if that gun was registered in another state. They require the FFL to keep those records in their A&D books.

I know this with certainty because I have been communicating with ATF for months about all these processes. And after getting clarification from MSP, if you get your PMFs serialized the ATF way, registration with MSP (77r) is optional, since the FFL recorded it in their books.

I'm an FFL manufacturer serializing PMFs to be compliant with both ATF and MSP. If you or someone you know still need to get your 80%s serialized by the March 1st deadline, I still have some open appointment slots left. Email me and I will see where I can fit you in.

I will also be accepting drop-offs to everyone that wasn’t able to schedule appointments in the times I have left. They would then have to come back later next week to pick them up. Drop-offs and pick-ups MUST both be made by the owner of the PMFs.

P.S.
@craftsman_69 @Dogmeat
Thank you for your kind words and for your business. I hope I am able to earn your business again in the future.

 

[Blue Customworks]

Here is the quote from the ATF Rule 2021r-05F and a link to the ruling itself (pg.166/98 sec.3.)

"The rule proposed requiring
licensees to first record the PMF as an
acquisition in the licensee’s A&D
records upon receipt from the private
owner (whether or not the licensee kept
the PMF overnight). Once marked, the
licensee would update the acquisition
entry with the identifying information
and record its return as a disposition to
the private owner."

https://www.federalregister.gov/doc...me-or-receiver-and-identification-of-firearms

 

[foodpoison]

So I decided to be the little bitch I am and comply with this BS. Hanover Armory, just walked in dropped them off and it was done in about 3 hrs. $50 per. They were busy

 

[Athelney878]

I’m still trying to figure this out (for a friend).

People keep saying if you have your PMF marked by an FFL in the ATF way, you do not have to register with the state under so-called option 1 of SB 387.

But option 1 of SB 387 specifically only applies where:

THE FIREARM IS REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW to be, and has been, imprinted by a federally licensed firearms manufacturer, federally licensed importer, or other federal licensee authorized to provide marking services, with a serial number in compliance with all federal laws and regulations applicable to the manufacture and import of firearms;

Here, there is no federal requirement to have the PMF imprinted at all, so I’m trying to figure out how option 1 would even apply. The final ATF rule (people keep quoting the proposed rule but that doesn’t matter) specifically says on page 24706:

The Department notes that nothing in this rule requires private individuals to mark their personally made (non-NFA) firearms or to present them to licensees for marking.

So, since there is no federal requirement that a PMF must imprinted by an FFL (only a Maryland requirement) how would option 1 apply and relieve the need to register with MSP?

Moreover, although the draft ATF rule was broader about when FFLs would have a federal requirement to imprint PMFs, the final rule walked that back (page 24707):

The final rule clarifies that licensed dealer-gunsmiths, manufacturers, and importers may conduct same-say adjustments or repairs on PMFs without having to place identifying markings or record the receipt as an acquisition or subsequent disposition on return.

So again, no general Federal rule requiring PMFs to be imprinted, which seems to be a prerequisite for option 1.

The final rule makes clear that a PMF must be recorded as an acquisition whenever it is marked for identification, including same day or on the spot.

But that’s not a federal requirement that a PMF be serialized, triggering option 1, but a FFL recording keeping requirement if a serialization happens.

So when would option 1 apply?

 

[NoMoreTreadingOnUs]

Heads up that Alejandro at Blue Customworks did a great job and I was able to mail the frames to him from Garrett Co, saving me from a 6-hour drive.

 

[Drucifer]

I’m still trying to figure this out (for a friend).

People keep saying if you have your PMF marked by an FFL in the ATF way, you do not have to register with the state under so-called option 1 of SB 387.

But option 1 of SB 387 specifically only applies where:



Here, there is no federal requirement to have the PMF imprinted at all, so I’m trying to figure out how option 1 would even apply. The final ATF rule (people keep quoting the proposed rule but that doesn’t matter) specifically says on page 24706:



So, since there is no federal requirement that a PMF must imprinted by an FFL (only a Maryland requirement) how would option 1 apply and relieve the need to register with MSP?

Moreover, although the draft ATF rule was broader about when FFLs would have a federal requirement to imprint PMFs, the final rule walked that back (page 24707):



So again, no general Federal rule requiring PMFs to be imprinted, which seems to be a prerequisite for option 1.


But that’s not a federal requirement that a PMF be serialized, triggering option 1, but a FFL recording keeping requirement if a serialization happens.

So when would option 1 apply?

I'm glad someone is asking this - I've been thinking about it since it was enacted. Federal law doesn't really require it, does it?

A PERSON MAY NOT PURCHASE, RECEIVE, SELL, OFFER TO SELL,
OR TRANSFER AN UNFINISHED FRAME OR RECEIVER UNLESS IT IS REQUIRED BY FEDERAL LAW TO BE, AND HAS BEEN, IMPRINTED WITH A SERIAL NUMBER BY A FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS MANUFACTURER OR FEDERALLY LICENSED15
FIREARMS IMPORTER IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL FEDERAL LAWS AND REGULATIONS
APPLICABLE TO THE MANUFACTURE AND IMPORT OF FIREARMS.

 

[mpbclutch33]

I got mine “atf” serialized in December. Saw the guy record it on something and made me a copy. Sounds good enough to me. I reached out to msp and no response. MSI said i should be good. Just makes me nervous is i was to ccw it.


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[Blue Customworks]

Maryland Shall Issue states this on their site, referring to getting PMFs serialized the ATF way.
"A frame or a receiver marked in this manner by a manufacturer or importer need not be registered with the Maryland State Police."

https://www.marylandshallissue.org/jmain/information/privately-made-firearms-in-maryland

But better yet, I have an email from Maryland State Police stating the same. See attached.

PLEASE NOTE, the deadline to get PMFs Serialized is today 2/28/23. Starting 3/1/23 being in possession of a finished or unfinished 80% becomes illegal in the State of Maryland.

I will accept walk-ins and drop off's today until 10PM. Contact me if you plan on coming in (DO NOT show up without contacting me first please). Wait times will be unpredictable for walk ins. Drop offs will have to return later in the week to pick them up.

 

[Jim12]

Because it is sort of in between. It has "new" way engraving, but FFL doing the engraving did not put it into bound book. I guess it is a little unclear what to do in such situation.

Hello, I can answer these concerns.

ATF requires all FFLs that engrave a serial number on a gun to log into their A&D books. The reason is simple, if that gun is found in a crime, ATF identifies the FFL with the first 8 digits, contacts that FFL and asks them who they serialized the gun for. ATF doesn't care if that gun was registered in another state. They require the FFL to keep those records in their A&D books.

I know this with certainty because I have been communicating with ATF for months about all these processes. And after getting clarification from MSP, if you get your PMFs serialized the ATF way, registration with MSP (77r) is optional, since the FFL recorded it in their books.

I'm an FFL manufacturer serializing PMFs to be compliant with both ATF and MSP. If you or someone you know still need to get your 80%s serialized by the March 1st deadline, I still have some open appointment slots left. Email me and I will see where I can fit you in.

I will also be accepting drop-offs to everyone that wasn’t able to schedule appointments in the times I have left. They would then have to come back later next week to pick them up. Drop-offs and pick-ups MUST both be made by the owner of the PMFs.

P.S.
@craftsman_69 @Dogmeat
Thank you for your kind words and for your business. I hope I am able to earn your business again in the future.

Two questions, if you know:

First, does the new ATF rule expand the categories of FFL's who can engrave a serial number to other FFL's beyond just manufacturers and importers? Thought I read something that they did so in order to facilitate engraving. Maybe it was just MD, not ATF; and

Second, if a serial number is engraved on an item, but that item was permanently removed from the state before 3/1/23 but still owned by the MD resident, does it need to be registered with MSP?

 

[bigdv]

This is extremely confusing. So if I have a receiver serial number engraved by FFL with their FFL number and serial number. They log it into their books I do not need to then register with Maryland State Police?

 

[Blue Customworks]

@bigdv
Correct.
See attached.

 

[trickg]

This doesn't apply to me - I'm throwing this question up for others for whom it may apply - now that the deadline of March 1st has come and gone, does that mean that this whole operation of engraving is now over, or can it still be done to get things within compliance?

Just curious. I got the ones I wanted to save engraved last week, so I'm good, but I'm sure there are some folks who simply didn't manage to handle their business in time. There always are.

 

[bigdv]

@bigdv
Correct.
See attached.

Thank you

 

[COACH1106]

This doesn't apply to me - I'm throwing this question up for others for whom it may apply - now that the deadline of March 1st has come and gone, does that mean that this whole operation of engraving is now over, or can it still be done to get things within compliance?

Just curious. I got the ones I wanted to save engraved last week, so I'm good, but I'm sure there are some folks who simply didn't manage to handle their business in time. There always are.

Had one done at Hanover yesterday in about 45min. So as of yesterday Hanover was still doing engraving.

 

[DaveP]

Theoretical question

IF I were to take a solid block of aluminum and start whittling some off, at what point does it need to be serialized?

 

[rbird7282]

Believe what you want. I don't make or enforce any rules or laws. I just have to follow them or loose my licenses.

I understand you didn’t make the rules but clearly we have differing opinions on the reason for this one.


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[nevadabill]

Blue Customworks can do serialization on firearms to make them compliant. They are located in Finksburg and their phone number is 301-742-4428.