Legal Transfer of Shotgun to my Wife?

[Uncle Duke]

My first real gun is a Remington 870 youth model 20 ga - the first iteration of it that Remington came out with in the early 1980s. It's SO small, but unless I have a grandkid at some point that wants it, I'll never get rid of it.

Mine was a single shot Mossberg bolt action .410, similar in looks to the repeaters in the recent Mossberg thread. It came from Topps as a birthday present when I was a kid. It is today both the least expensive shotgun I own, and the one that has accounted for more small game than any of the more expensive shotguns I've owned since. It was my first centerfire firearm of any type.

I can't relate just how many memories are tied up in that gun. I wouldn't get a hundred dollars for it if I sold it. And I wouldn't sell it for ten times as much.

May your wife enjoy hers half as much.

 

[dblas]

So here's possibly a dumb question. I just ordered a shotgun for my wife. Because of stipulations for how things are ordered when it comes to firearms, when the gun comes in to the shop and we go to pick it up, the only person who can pick it up is the person who placed the order - me.

Sucks what the store said, but sounds like a great Valentine's Day gift.

I want this gun to legally be my wife's - not mine.

Not that hard to do.

It used to be that you simply handed the gun over, said, "Here - this is yours!" - and that was it, or at least that's my rudimentary understanding of it.

Yep, and still is in free America, and in Maryland since it is being transferred between immediate family members.

I'm not sure what the process is now, but it's important to me that this gun becomes hers legally.

Nothing has changed, once you buy it, bring it home a present her gift to her. If she has any issues, do a bill of sale and sign it.

This gun is a gift for her so that we can shoot trap together, and she has a gun that fits her appropriately. We got her a BT-99 Micro with Adjustable LOP - her arms are just too short to use anything bigger, and that gun adjusts down fairly small, but it also dials out to 14.5" - I could feasibly use it if she ever tires of shooting trap. (Not likely - she's all in and pretty enthused about it.)

Damned fine gift

I've never done this before - but it seems to me that I'm going to have to take it to an FFL, do the transfer paperwork, and pay the fees, just like I would have to if it was someone else.

No need to go to an FFL to do another transfer.

 

[chilipeppermaniac]

To date my wife has never been into shooting at all. I'm not altogether sure why because we've been married almost 32 years and guns have always been a part of my life. Possibly it's because she's retired from her job as a public school teacher and she's going out of her comfort zone on some things, and finding that she actually enjoys shooting. She shot an AR for the first time this last summer and LOVED it!

In any case, all of the guns have always been "mine" both technically and legally. She wants this one to be hers. I know - it's a matter of semantics, but this will be the first gun that is specifically hers, and with that in mind, I think she wants to fill out the requisite paperwork (never mind that in a perfect world we wouldn't need it at all) so that she can fully make that claim.

Last year was kind of a rough year for us, so I feel like she deserves this one.

Amen and so glad MRS G is sharing in something you also enjoy, and she now likes it too.

 

[Biggfoot44]

I guess when you go to Bass Pro to pick it up get her to fill out the paper work. I don't think the girl on the phone knew what she was talking about. Good luck.

I don't doubt it could be a Corporate Policy , but it's not a legal requirement
.

 

[fabsroman]

In Maryland, If you're legally married, living together, and neither person is prohibited, property is considered mutual in a marrige, including firearms. Change any of those conditions, and things change. Hope she enjoys the new shotgun !

No it is not. The vehicles titled in my name that I purchased during the marriage, while considered marital property, are mine. A judge CANNOT change title of any asset in divorce. What he can do is award a monetary judgment to my wife. Same goes for the guns. All the guns, except one handgun, are titled in my name.

 

[fabsroman]

Md. Pub. Safety §5–204.1.

(a) This section does not apply to:

(1) a sale, rental, or transfer:

(i) involving a licensee or a federally licensed gun manufacturer, dealer, or importer;

(ii) between immediate family members;

(iii) involving law enforcement personnel of any unit of the federal government, a member of the armed forces of the United States, a member of the National Guard, or law enforcement personnel of the State or any local agency in the State, while acting in the scope of official duty;

(iv) of a curio or relic firearm between collectors who each have in their possession a valid collector of curios and relics license, as the terms are defined in federal law or determinations published by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives;

(v) of an unserviceable rifle or shotgun sold, rented, or transferred as a curio or museum piece;

(vi) of a rifle or shotgun modified to render it permanently inoperative; or

(vii) in which the purchaser, lessee, or transferee:

1. has a demonstrable religious belief against taking a portrait photograph; and

2. does not possess a license or an identification card of any kind with photographic identification; or

(2) a transfer that occurs by operation of law on the death of a person for whom the transferee is an executor, an administrator, a trustee, or a personal representative of an estate or a trust created in a will.

(b) A person who is not a licensee may not complete a sale, rental, or transfer of a rifle or shotgun other than a regulated firearm, as a purchaser, lessee, or transferee or seller, lessor, or transferor, unless the person is in compliance with this section.

(c) (1) Before a sale, rental, or transfer is conducted, the seller, lessor, or transferor and purchaser, lessee, or transferee shall both request that a licensee facilitate the sale, rental, or transfer.

(2) (i) A licensee who agrees to facilitate a sale, rental, or transfer under this section shall process the sale, rental, or transfer as though transferring the rifle or shotgun from the licensee’s own inventory to the purchaser, lessee, or transferee.

(ii) The licensee shall conduct a background check on the purchaser, lessee, or transferee through the NICS Index and comply with all federal and State law that would apply to the sale, rental, or transfer, including all inventory and record–keeping requirements.

(3) The seller, lessor, or transferor may:

(i) deliver the rifle or shotgun to a licensee; or

(ii) without appearing in person before the licensee, allow another person, to whom the transferor is authorized to transfer the rifle or shotgun, to deliver the rifle or shotgun to the licensee.

(d) (1) The licensee or the seller, lessor, or transferor may not complete the sale, rental, or transfer to the purchaser, lessee, or transferee if the results of the background check indicate that the purchaser, lessee, or transferee may not possess the rifle or shotgun.

(2) Unless the seller, lessor, or transferor delivered the rifle or shotgun in accordance with subsection (c)(3)(ii) of this section or otherwise left the rifle or shotgun in the exclusive possession of the licensee, if the results of the background check indicate that the purchaser, lessee, or transferee may not possess the rifle or shotgun, the seller, lessor, or transferor may remove the rifle or shotgun from the premises of the licensee or a gun show.

(e) A licensee may charge a reasonable fee for facilitating a sale, rental, or transfer under this section.

(f) (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, a person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 6 months or a fine not exceeding $10,000 or both.

(2) A person who provides false information while conducting a transaction under this section is guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 3 years or a fine not exceeding $5,000 or both.

(g) A licensee who processes a sale, rental, or transfer under this section may not be held civilly liable for personal injury or property damage resulting from the malfunctioning of a rifle or shotgun if the licensee did not modify or alter the rifle or shotgun.

Md. Pub. Safety §5–201.

(a) In this subtitle the following words have the meanings indicated.

(b) “Dealer’s license” means a federal firearms license.

(c) “Immediate family member” means a spouse, a parent, a stepparent, a grandparent, a stepgrandparent, an aunt, an uncle, a sibling, a stepsibling, a child, a stepchild, a grandchild, a stepgrandchild, a niece, or a nephew, as related by blood or marriage.

(d) “Licensee” means a person who holds a dealer’s license.

(e) “NICS Index” has the meaning stated in § 5–133.2 of this title.

(f) “Rifle” has the meaning stated in § 4–201 of the Criminal Law Article.

(g) “Short–barreled rifle” has the meaning stated in § 4–201 of the Criminal Law Article.

(h) “Short–barreled shotgun” has the meaning stated in § 4–201 of the Criminal Law Article.

(i) “Shotgun” has the meaning stated in § 4–201 of the Criminal Law Article.

 

[Art3]

I think a local gun shop, especially if you are a regular customer, would let her do the paperwork, but it doesn't surprise me at all that a big corporate like Basspro wouldn't.
If it really means that much to her, I'm sure you could pay a local gun shop to do the unnecessary transfer to make it officially hers. Maybe it's silly, but we are here to celebrate her involvement in the firearms community, not judge what is meaningful to her

 

[fabsroman]

I think a local gun shop, especially if you are a regular customer, would let her do the paperwork, but it doesn't surprise me at all that a big corporate like Basspro wouldn't.
If it really means that much to her, I'm sure you could pay a local gun shop to do the unnecessary transfer to make it officially hers. Maybe it's silly, but we are here to celebrate her involvement in the firearms community, not judge what is meaningful to her

Bass Pro made the entire process a complete PITA for my brother 10+ years ago. Both my brothers and I were there. One was going to buy a Benelli SBE2 and the other was going to buy a Browning gun safe. The gun transaction was FUBAR, so we just walked right out of the store. Doubt I will ever buy another gun from Bass Pro. Come to think of it, I don't think I have ever bought a gun from Bass Pro. Pretty sure I have not.

Bass Pro has also managed to destroy the image of Cabela's. However, Bass Pro did have an ad run during the Super Bowl. lol That should fix everything right up.

I doubt Bass Pro would be willing to allow OP's wife to fill out the 4473. I would be shocked if they allow it. With that said, it does not hurt to ask.

Next up, whether this would run afoul of SCOTUS' Abramski decision.

Abramski v. United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BurkeM]

No it is not. The vehicles titled in my name that I purchased during the marriage, while considered marital property, are mine. A judge CANNOT change title of any asset in divorce. What he can do is award a monetary judgment to my wife. Same goes for the guns. All the guns, except one handgun, are titled in my name.

Guns don't have 'titles.'

 

[LuckyShot]

never heard of anyone transferring a non regulated firearm to a family member.

I can understand a guy on classifieds not wanting his name associated with it anymore selling it to a stranger but transferring shouldnt apply to a person youre gonna live in the same house with till you die.

Dads and sons trade/buy each others non regulated guns all the time.

 

[fabsroman]

Guns don't have 'titles.'

Yeah, they don't have deeds either. However, they are owned by somebody and proof of ownership can usually be accomplished one way or another.

In a divorce, do you think my wife can prove proof of ownership over the guns I purchased?

 

[rseymorejr]

I doubt Bass Pro would be willing to allow OP's wife to fill out the 4473. I would be shocked if they allow it. With that said, it does not hurt to ask.

I'll have to disagree with you there. I believe that if the OP showed up to pick up a gun he ordered and had his wife there to fill out the 4473 They would cancel the sale right on the spot. They are very paranoid and anything tha smels like a "straw purchase" will throw them into lock down mode. Several years ago my wife was at Bass Pro looking to buy me a handgun for Christmas. As aoon as she mentioned that they closed up the case and walked away from her and refused to help her anymore. Corporate ass covering I guess?

 

[fabsroman]

I'll have to disagree with you there. I believe that if the OP showed up to pick up a gun he ordered and had his wife there to fill out the 4473 They would cancel the sale right on the spot. They are very paranoid and anything tha smels like a "straw purchase" will throw them into lock down mode. Several years ago my wife was at Bass Pro looking to buy me a handgun for Christmas. As aoon as she mentioned that they closed up the case and walked away from her and refused to help her anymore. Corporate ass covering I guess?

Yeah, you are probably right now that I think about my brother's attempted purchase of the Benelli SBE2 back in 2013.

 

[trickg]

never heard of anyone transferring a non regulated firearm to a family member.

I can understand a guy on classifieds not wanting his name associated with it anymore selling it to a stranger but transferring shouldnt apply to a person youre gonna live in the same house with till you die.

Dads and sons trade/buy each others non regulated guns all the time.

That's the problem though - secondary private sales/transfers of long guns are regulated in Maryland now, which I agree is dumb, but it is what it is.

I think what I'll do is to simply do the deal in my name, and then go down the street to my LGS and do the transfer. Yes, it will cost me, but I'll quote Art:

If it really means that much to her, I'm sure you could pay a local gun shop to do the unnecessary transfer to make it officially hers. Maybe it's silly, but we are here to celebrate her involvement in the firearms community, not judge what is meaningful to her

It's a BIG deal to her. She grew up afraid of guns and had never even held one prior to going back to visit my family in Nebraska not long after we got married. She got the crash course! On day 1 she went from shooting a 22 rifle and pistol to rolling full auto with both a Thompson and an Uzi. Her family simply didn't own guns, period.

If it means it's going to cost me to take it to a an LGS FFL to make it legally hers, then that's what I'll do.

 

[fabsroman]

That's the problem though - secondary private sales/transfers of long guns are regulated in Maryland now, which I agree is dumb, but it is what it is.

I think what I'll do is to simply do the deal in my name, and then go down the street to my LGS and do the transfer. Yes, it will cost me, but I'll quote Art:


It's a BIG deal to her. She grew up afraid of guns and had never even held one prior to going back to visit my family in Nebraska not long after we got married. She got the crash course! On day 1 she went from shooting a 22 rifle and pistol to rolling full auto with both a Thompson and an Uzi. Her family simply didn't own guns, period.

If it means it's going to cost me to take it to a an LGS FFL to make it legally hers, then that's what I'll do.

I think you could accomplish the same thing with a Bill of Sale to her for $1.

 

[linkstate]

I'll have to disagree with you there. I believe that if the OP showed up to pick up a gun he ordered and had his wife there to fill out the 4473 They would cancel the sale right on the spot. They are very paranoid and anything tha smels like a "straw purchase" will throw them into lock down mode. Several years ago my wife was at Bass Pro looking to buy me a handgun for Christmas. As aoon as she mentioned that they closed up the case and walked away from her and refused to help her anymore. Corporate ass covering I guess?

This. I bought a long gun from Bass Pro a few years ago. Was doing paperwork next to a guy and there was some conversation about his wife and they stopped the sale right then and there. No more discussion. I didn’t catch the whole story but the guy seemed like he was trying to do the ‘right thing’ and was rewarded with a no sale and hit the road jack for his effort.

Between their whole process and the incessant badgering to get their credit card, I would never buy a gun from them again. Oh and they would not release a regulated long gun until MSP came back with not disapproved. I waited months during the great debacle of 2013. Lesson learned.

 

[Bountied]

No it is not. The vehicles titled in my name that I purchased during the marriage, while considered marital property, are mine. A judge CANNOT change title of any asset in divorce. What he can do is award a monetary judgment to my wife. Same goes for the guns. All the guns, except one handgun, are titled in my name.

How do you verify that? I have a bunch of illegible pink sheets from throughout the years. Do you go to the MSP and see what is registered to you like the DMV?

 

[Bountied]

I'll have to disagree with you there. I believe that if the OP showed up to pick up a gun he ordered and had his wife there to fill out the 4473 They would cancel the sale right on the spot. They are very paranoid and anything tha smels like a "straw purchase" will throw them into lock down mode. Several years ago my wife was at Bass Pro looking to buy me a handgun for Christmas. As aoon as she mentioned that they closed up the case and walked away from her and refused to help her anymore. Corporate ass covering I guess?

handguns are a different animal. A shotgun should be fine. I think half of the guns I own are actually in my name (somewhere?). Remember FTF transactions for long guns?

 

[dblas]

How do you verify that? I have a bunch of illegible pink sheets from throughout the years. Do you go to the MSP and see what is registered to you like the DMV?

Keep the 4473's that were filled out for all of the firearms. With regards to handguns, if they were transferred in Maryland, then do a PIA request to MSP for the firearms listed as transferred to you and have your (now separated) wife to do the same to prove ownership.

 

[Bountied]

OK... buy the gun. Give it to her. There, it's hers. Does she want a certificate that she can frame and put on the wall to show people it's hers? Get her name engraved on it? Nothing says I own this like engraving it with your moniker. That's why people know my power tools are mine, my name is on it.