Is this a good compromise?

[FrankZ]

I'd be happy to exchange no back ground checks if we got constitutional carry and no infringements on 2A. I'd be happy to throw in people people being responsible for their actions and criminals (those that do harm to others) getting to the pokey until such time as they can be processed off the planet.

Think they would go for this compromise?

 

[Brooklyn]

Compromise : the art of getting what you want in exchange for something you don't.

We get the 2a and in exchange we get to stop suing them> I am ok with that.

 

[fabsroman]

Put it up for an Amendment to the Bill of Rights. Toss in certain select fire arms too, or maybe even all fully automatic firearms too and not just the pre-1986 ones.

Did not read the article, but one thing I would add is that anybody creating a registry from the background check information will do 15 years in maximum security federal prison. I don't want to see a gun registry come about based upon this compromise.

I do find it a little unsettling that Mr. Crazy down the road can go to a yard sale, buy a firearm, and then shoot up my kids' elementary school. NICS isn't going to help there. I understand the confiscation side of the argument too. If they know who owns all the guns, then they will know exactly where to go knocking.

Only way I would support this type of compromise is if it is done via Constitutional Amendment so it is almost set in stone.

Then, we might finally be done with all this BS talk about firearms bans, background checks, the safety of the children, and what not, and we can get back to more important issues like education, the budget, the debt and debt ceiling, unemployment, under-employment, etc. Way too much time and money is being wasted on such a small issue such as gun control when the entire nation is headed down the toilet from a fiscal standpoint. Politicians are probably scared to death of armed senior citizens when the social security checks get paired down or cut out completely.

Oh yeah, include NO licensing requirements or registration requirements at any level of government, and make federal law pre-empt all other local laws covering firearms. None of us should be worried about what one state's firearms laws are versus another's when we are visiting another state for any reason whatsoever.

 

[FrankZ]

I do find it a little unsettling that Mr. Crazy down the road can go to a yard sale, buy a firearm, and then shoot up my kids' elementary school.

This is what the anti's want you to be scared of.

Mr. Crazy won't get far if they would let us arm the teachers. There's a compromise.

 

[fabsroman]

This is what the anti's want you to be scared of.

Mr. Crazy won't get far if they would let us arm the teachers. There's a compromise.

If the first person that Mr. Crazy shoots and kills is one of my kids, I could care less how many bullets the teacher or security guard puts in him. I know you are somewhat younger and probably without kids, so you don't really know how to feel about this. After Newtown, for 4 days I alternated between crying and being angry. When I was angry, I took my frustration out on some firewood that needed splitting and used an ax instead of the hydraulic splitter in the garage. I was at Dave & Buster's the other night and my nephew and son got lost in the game room. My 3 year old nephew took off running and my 4 year old son followed him. Thought they had run back to my wife and siblings at the back of the restaurant section, but they were not there. I got my brothers to help look and we found my nephew first and my son was not with him. My heart was racing and sweat was pouring out of me. Then, my brother found my son in the middle of the game room.

Yes, I am in favor of arming the teachers. I am also in favor of a double door locked entry way with solid metal doors, bullet proof glass, and a card reader for all visitors to swipe their photo ID on. I am also in favor of universal background checks IF there is no registry created.

Thing is, I know some friends that are police officers, and they are terrible shots. I mean terrible. I don't even want my kids' lives to depend on them, but they would be better than nothing.

End of the day, I want to know that my kids are coming home safe and sound from school and I also want to know that I do NOT have to rely on law enforcement if something goes down at my house or elsewhere. I want to be able to protect my family when I am with them, and I want them protected when they are away from me.

Edit to add: How many teachers do you think are firearms owners AND extremely competent shots? What happens if the class they teach is all the way at the back of where the shooting begins? Don't get me wrong, I am all for the 2nd Amendment Right and I think that some of the reasons for prohibiting people is ridiculous. Honestly, does it really matter if a Bernie Madoff type criminal gets 20 years. How likely is he to commit a violent crime when he gets out of prison. The entire more than 2 years thing is BS. If that is the standard, people should lose their right to vote too.

I also think that mental health reporting to NICS needs to be MANDATORY across the board for all states. No crazy person in Maryland should be able to buy a Remington 870 and shoot up a Naval Yard (yes, I know that it was bought in Virginia). My point is, a NICS check in Maryland on a non-regulated long gun would not show a mental problem because Maryland does not report that stuff to NICS.

 

[Mike OTDP]

For me the question is enforcement. What's to enforce the states to comply? What's to prevent states from non-compliance?

I mean we already see places like NY and MA who openly say they don't comply with FOPA.

That's why you make it a felony. Preferably under 18 USC Section 2383. Ten year sentence for rebellion against the United States...if you survive the suppression of the rebellion.

 

[Brooklyn]

Put it up for an Amendment to the Bill of Rights. Toss in certain select fire arms too, or maybe even all fully automatic firearms too and not just the pre-1986 ones.

Did not read the article, but one thing I would add is that anybody creating a registry from the background check information will do 15 years in maximum security federal prison. I don't want to see a gun registry come about based upon this compromise.

I do find it a little unsettling that Mr. Crazy down the road can go to a yard sale, buy a firearm, and then shoot up my kids' elementary school. NICS isn't going to help there. I understand the confiscation side of the argument too. If they know who owns all the guns, then they will know exactly where to go knocking.

Only way I would support this type of compromise is if it is done via Constitutional Amendment so it is almost set in stone.

Then, we might finally be done with all this BS talk about firearms bans, background checks, the safety of the children, and what not, and we can get back to more important issues like education, the budget, the debt and debt ceiling, unemployment, under-employment, etc. Way too much time and money is being wasted on such a small issue such as gun control when the entire nation is headed down the toilet from a fiscal standpoint. Politicians are probably scared to death of armed senior citizens when the social security checks get paired down or cut out completely.

Oh yeah, include NO licensing requirements or registration requirements at any level of government, and make federal law pre-empt all other local laws covering firearms. None of us should be worried about what one state's firearms laws are versus another's when we are visiting another state for any reason whatsoever.

I think most crazy people will get their guns from crack dealers -- one stop shopping. I also think the drugs themselves are forcing psychotic breaks -- an issue which would be easy to track and fix we we stopped worrying about guns and worried about nuts.

In most of the shootings attributed to these nuts, clear warning were not acted upon timely. It makes me wonder if similar warnings have been acted on and we have in fact prevented shootings. Or perhaps the PC crowd have in fact gotten people killed.

Compromise that reports more stuff that will be ignored exactly the kind of crap we do not need.

Maybe someday someone will prosecute a straw purchase so we can prove they exist.

 

[TheBert]

What I am saying is I would be willing to accept a new law if that new law said that universal background checks are legal BUT the law also must state that assault weapon bans are illegal and that magazine bans are illegal (At both the federal and state level). The new law also must state that every state be “shall issue” for CCW.

The article I posted goes into better detail than what I said. I just read it last night and thought it was an interesting idea. Was wondering what everyone else thought about it.

Why? We already have a natural and Constitutional right to keep and bear arms. What we need to do is to fight ensure that that right isn't infringed by anyone.

 

[ELEMENT94]

I normally opposed universal background checks but I would probably support a package saying that if we gave them UBCs, they would give us a complete ban on “Assault Weapon” Bans and magazine bans and make all states “Shall Issue” for CCW.

I wonder what the majority of congresspeople would say to such a proposal if it got some steam among the population.

http://www.guns.com/2013/10/04/ending-war-gun-control-5-easy-steps-video/

NO

 

[jrumann59]

Maybe a Doctor or mental health professional can chime on this one question? What happens when an individual is prescribed drug lets say for depression but really is not suffering from depression? I know not all doctors are bad but I know some are in the pockets of big pharma, I mean look at the ads on TV for this pill or that pill for ailment X or Y. I am just saying has parenting gotten so bad in this country that kids are being misdiagnosed for ADHD, depression, bipolar, etc and being given these drugs that actually make them crazy?

 

[FrankZ]

If the first person that Mr. Crazy shoots and kills is one of my kids, I could care less how many bullets the teacher or security guard puts in him. I know you are somewhat younger and probably without kids, so you don't really know how to feel about this.

I am without kids. That said I am not without loved ones in a school. Particularly loved ones that had a shotgun pointed at their head and a trigger pulled. I didn't think about my children after Newtown, I did however get to sit at home and think about the school shooter that took a shot AT my partner. That give me enough skin in the game to have an opinion?

An active shooter in any situation needs stopping. THe best way to do that is someone else shooting back. You can try and yank emotions, the antis play that game, but the bottom line is we need to quit thinking with emotions (and using children as a trump card) and start looking at how things can be made safer.

You won't stop crazies from getting guns. If you take every gun out of civilian hands you won't stop crazies from getting guns. There are enough lost from the police (they really are civilians too, and I am not being disparaging) and the military that there will still be guns out there. If someone can't shoot a child they can stab one. In that they are still dead.

Crazies are going to do what crazies do. We can try to identify them, but of course that means locking people up before they commit a crime (slippery slope isn't it?) or we can prepare and stand in readiness.

 

[fabsroman]

I am without kids. That said I am not without loved ones in a school. Particularly loved ones that had a shotgun pointed at their head and a trigger pulled. I didn't think about my children after Newtown, I did however get to sit at home and think about the school shooter that took a shot AT my partner. That give me enough skin in the game to have an opinion?

An active shooter in any situation needs stopping. THe best way to do that is someone else shooting back. You can try and yank emotions, the antis play that game, but the bottom line is we need to quit thinking with emotions (and using children as a trump card) and start looking at how things can be made safer.

You won't stop crazies from getting guns. If you take every gun out of civilian hands you won't stop crazies from getting guns. There are enough lost from the police (they really are civilians too, and I am not being disparaging) and the military that there will still be guns out there. If someone can't shoot a child they can stab one. In that they are still dead.

Crazies are going to do what crazies do. We can try to identify them, but of course that means locking people up before they commit a crime (slippery slope isn't it?) or we can prepare and stand in readiness.

Alright, we both have skin in the game. Honestly, we all have skin in the game because this kind of BS can happen at mall, shopping center, restaurant, etc. My brother was attacked by a crazy man at a pho soup place in Wheaton just because he looked at the guy. The guy actually threw a soup bowl across the room and smashed my brother in the face.

Thing here is you are focused on stopping an active shooter AFTER he gets started. Me, I am focusing on stopping him from obtaining the weapon to become an active shooter in the first place.

I fully understand that a truly crazy person can find a gun. Heck, I have the skills to build a gun from a block of aluminum if I really wanted to. Thing is, not everybody has those skills and sometimes, just one additional hoop to hatch a plan will avert Mr. Crazy from being successful. Who knows if it is the inability of Mr. Crazy to get a firearm, get through the doors, gun down Mr. Sanity, etc. However, we just hope that one of those steps thwarts his plan.

What really bugs me about the best way to stop Mr. Crazy is through Mr. Sanity means that Mr. Sanity needs to be in the right place at the right time. Granted, we increase the odds of that happening with more CCW, etc. However, if you make accomplishing something so difficult for Mr. Crazy, he might just decide not to go through with it, even though he is nuts or he might get caught in the process. As we increase the odds of Mr. Sanity being in the right place at the right time, we also decrease the odds of Mr. Crazy obtaining a firearm by requiring ALL firearms transfers be done through the NICS system. Yes, somebody might eventually get a firearm, but the odds of them getting one is decreased. So, decrease the odds of Mr. Crazy getting a firearm and increase the odds of Mr. Sanity being in the right place at the right time, and we might actually be able to reduce the Newtowns, Auroras, Virginia Techs, Columbines, etc. Not as many people making fertilizer bombs or pressure cooker bombs because it is slightly harder to obtain those items than it is to obtain a firearm at a yard sale and 1,000 rounds of ammo via mail order.

By the way, I want the school bus that picks my kids up to be an Abrams tank.

 

[FrankZ]

Thing here is you are focused on stopping an active shooter AFTER he gets started. Me, I am focusing on stopping him from obtaining the weapon to become an active shooter in the first place.

This is EXACTLY the argument the antis used to push SB281 at us. It will make us safer because those that shouldn't get guns won't get them.

The failing of it is twofold:

1) It creates a false sense of security.
2) It infringes on the rights of law abiding citizens.

There are people that will abuse a right, any right. You can either remove rights from everyone or be prepared to deal with it. The reason we push to make MD a shall issue state is to be prepared. This is so more people can be prepared with the tool(s) necessary.

 

[dejacks]

NO

 

[HollowPoint]

Lol.

Here's a counter compromise... Convert HQL to Carry Permit with no further requirements in MD.

I like the way you think!!!

 

[Brooklyn]

Maybe a Doctor or mental health professional can chime on this one question? What happens when an individual is prescribed drug lets say for depression but really is not suffering from depression? I know not all doctors are bad but I know some are in the pockets of big pharma, I mean look at the ads on TV for this pill or that pill for ailment X or Y. I am just saying has parenting gotten so bad in this country that kids are being misdiagnosed for ADHD, depression, bipolar, etc and being given these drugs that actually make them crazy?

Do a google search on attention deficit disorder and psychotic breaks. Do a search on depression meds an psychotic breaks

Search psycho active drugs and psychotic breaks. Drug induced pyscosis ...

and so on ..

the truth has been out there for some time. ..

Its so bad that even doctors are noticing, big pharma is still in a very profitable denial.

If you have kids or know people that do-- warn them.. It not that everyone is affected negatively , but those that are ---- its bad... very bad,

Want to ' save even one child' start with the damn drugs... safe they are not... and they are over used,, PERIOD.

 

[Brooklyn]

Alright, we both have skin in the game. Honestly, we all have skin in the game because this kind of BS can happen at mall, shopping center, restaurant, etc. My brother was attacked by a crazy man at a pho soup place in Wheaton just because he looked at the guy. The guy actually threw a soup bowl across the room and smashed my brother in the face.

Thing here is you are focused on stopping an active shooter AFTER he gets started. Me, I am focusing on stopping him from obtaining the weapon to become an active shooter in the first place.

I fully understand that a truly crazy person can find a gun. Heck, I have the skills to build a gun from a block of aluminum if I really wanted to. Thing is, not everybody has those skills and sometimes, just one additional hoop to hatch a plan will avert Mr. Crazy from being successful. Who knows if it is the inability of Mr. Crazy to get a firearm, get through the doors, gun down Mr. Sanity, etc. However, we just hope that one of those steps thwarts his plan.

What really bugs me about the best way to stop Mr. Crazy is through Mr. Sanity means that Mr. Sanity needs to be in the right place at the right time. Granted, we increase the odds of that happening with more CCW, etc. However, if you make accomplishing something so difficult for Mr. Crazy, he might just decide not to go through with it, even though he is nuts or he might get caught in the process. As we increase the odds of Mr. Sanity being in the right place at the right time, we also decrease the odds of Mr. Crazy obtaining a firearm by requiring ALL firearms transfers be done through the NICS system. Yes, somebody might eventually get a firearm, but the odds of them getting one is decreased. So, decrease the odds of Mr. Crazy getting a firearm and increase the odds of Mr. Sanity being in the right place at the right time, and we might actually be able to reduce the Newtowns, Auroras, Virginia Techs, Columbines, etc. Not as many people making fertilizer bombs or pressure cooker bombs because it is slightly harder to obtain those items than it is to obtain a firearm at a yard sale and 1,000 rounds of ammo via mail order.

By the way, I want the school bus that picks my kids up to be an Abrams tank.

Sorry this is nonsense.

If we are lucky they will keep using guns, its much, much easier to kill with < redacted> which can be purchased nearly everywhere.

If you want to know do your own Google search --- but know that every time one of these events happens the media gives a tutorial on how to do it. And they make folk heroes of the little monsters ... think about that. Instead of restricting the right of everyone we could ask the press to STFU about details that could be used by the next madman.. Think they will ---no they will wrap themselves in the 1A and will say f off. As if the public needs to know how to build bombs ... never their fault of course...

 

[Threeband]

Lol.

Here's a counter compromise... Convert HQL to Carry Permit with no further requirements in MD.

I like the way you think!!!

In most other states, fingerprints, an application fee, and an intensive background check gets you an unrestricted carry permit good for five years, with or without mandatory training.

The HQL should be an CHP: Concealed Handgun Permit. Unrestricted and Shall Issue. I could accept that, I think.

 

[rseymorejr]

In most other states, fingerprints, an application fee, and an intensive background check gets you an unrestricted carry permit good for five years, with or without mandatory training.

The HQL should be an CHP: Concealed Handgun Permit. Unrestricted and Shall Issue. I could accept that, I think.

And you should be able to use it for purchase, without an additional wait.

 

[Threeband]

...


By the way, I want the school bus that picks my kids up to be an Abrams tank.

That's just nuts. Tracked vehicles tear up the pavement like you wouldn't believe. You want something with tires, like a Stryker.