Is this a basis to challenge our 7-day waiting period?

[brownspotz]

and we wonder why criminals purchase guns illegally...

 

[Pinecone]

Well, you weren't around for the 100+ day waits last summer? They do what they want, unchecked for the most part.

Actually I was around for those.

And that was caused by not having enough people to do the work.

Based on your theory, they should have hired a large number of people, and still had it take more than 30 days.

 

[Pinecone]

For the record, my HQL was approved (I had to wait two days for the card) before the 7 day mark. I think my HQL only took two days to approve. If it only takes two days to do the a more stringent f-ing background check (regular check doesn't do fingerprints), why do I have to wait 7 to receive a firearm?

I think we have a leg to stand on based on the California case.

As has been said before, the 7 days comes from the time when everything went by US MAIL to and from MSP.

 

[danb]

Remember, the law went into affect before faxes even existed.

Does not matter. If it's challenged it will be defended based every rationale they can think of.

 

[PJDiesel]

As has been said before, the 7 days comes from the time when everything went by US MAIL to and from MSP.

As stated before, DE and PA do them on in the spot in 15 mins flat.

The system is ******** and not needed.

 

[Mark75H]

As has been said before, the 7 days comes from the time when everything went by US MAIL to and from MSP.

It was definitely called the cooling off period when it was enacted. It was never about paperwork timing - in the old days or now


That and the Roster ... the roster wasn't about 'unsafe' guns as much as inexpensive guns "Saturday Night Specials" ... the whole concept was that without these miracle laws in MD, criminals could legally purchase an elcheapo handgun at 6:30 pm on Saturday and rob the liquor store across the street at 7pm or shoot his worthless brother-in-law the same or next day without dipping into his lunch or bus fare budget.

The Roster was supposed take inexpensive guns off the market so it would not be cost effective to use them to rob small retail establishments.

And the wait was to give you time to kiss and make up with your kin.

Believe it or not, some of us who were there when these laws were passed are still alive.

 

[fabsroman]

Guys, wasn't a bill in the General Assembly this past session that would have done away with the 7 day wait, but required that dealers could not release a gun until the ND came back? Now that is some scary stuff. MSP could keep firearms in background "pergatory" for as long as they wish if a law like that would pass.

My recollection on the 7 day waiting period is that it really is a cooling off period. Even if the paperwork came back in 3 days, you still could not pick up the firearm. If it wasn't a cooling off period, why wouldn't the general assembly have written the law such that a person could pick up their firearm at the earlier of:
1) 7 days after the paperwork has been submitted to MSP; or
2) the return of an ND by the MSP to the dealer that submitted the paperwork.

If it wasn't a cooling off period, then why not allow a person to pick up the firearm on day 3 or 4 if the ND has already come back to the dealer? IN today's day and age, the MSP should be able to accomplish a thorough background check IF it has the proper technology in place. Then again, that might take a miracle after what we saw with the health care exchange fiasco.

Edit to add:

Maybe the recently proposed bill was the great of:
1) 7 days after the paperwork has been submitted to MSP; or
2) the return of an ND by the MSP to the dealer that submitted the paperwork.

Simply changing "greater" and "lesser" really changes that up.

 

[myright]

hmm 2 day wait for hand guns when a shotgun or .308 rifle is cash and carry still makes no sense to me.

 

[fabsroman]

hmm 2 day wait for hand guns when a shotgun or .308 rifle is cash and carry still makes no sense to me.

I agree. My 3rd or 4th day example was assuming that MSP would take that long to do the 17 database background check on a person. Personally, I would like to see the background check go to a NICS check for handguns in Maryland, and I would like a NICS check to simply be based on mental health. I am of the opinion that even a convicted felon should be able to purchase a firearm once he/she has repaid his/her debate to society by doing his/her time in prison. If they really want to continue down the criminal path, there are plenty of places for them to buy an illegal gun, or manufacture one themselves. If we think they are able to be back in society, then they should have all their Constitutional rights restored, not just some. However, that is an entirely different discussion.

Then, we can even delve into the mental health issue some more.

 

[fidelity]

hmm 2 day wait for hand guns when a shotgun or .308 rifle is cash and carry still makes no sense to me.

Don't worry. There are folks interested in making rifle and shotgun purchases go through the MD background check and 7-day wait ...

The Demanding Mommies and Bloomberg are targeting Maryland this year for a background check/registration and 7-day waiting period for all long guns, which pretty much means the hunting rifles and shotguns that some in the hunting community didn't think would be affected.

In short, we know for sure that they want a 77-R type system for all long guns. Now that they banned the AR-15, they want the old "assault rifle" laws applied to the "traditional hunting rifles" that they said they'd never go after...

Hunters supported us in SB281, but we could have had more. There are a lot of "I got mine" people out there who won't step up until they are in the crosshairs. I say, "welcome to the team", even if belatedly.

The above post is #33 in this thread, in which there is some follow up from Patrick.

 

[Rack&Roll]

All that mattered--and still matters-- is that there is a 7-day wait when we are surrounded by Instant Background Check states where you walk away with your handgun 5-10 minutes after purchase.

When it suited the Maryland Anti-Gun Crowd the Wait was a "lifesaving cooling off" measure--when it was not being touted as the Wait Time Necessary to ferret out Criminal Wacko Mass Murderers.

The "purpose" simply shape-shifts depending on who the audience is, and God knows the Anti's love it by any name.

 

[Pinecone]

It was definitely called the cooling off period when it was enacted. It was never about paperwork timing - in the old days or now

Do you have any printed references in the law or other sources?

 

[swinokur]

I dunno, why do we still have to submit 2 shell casings that get tossed in a barrel?

It's MD that's why.

 

[Pinecone]

The MD requirement dates from the 60s or early 70s.

Todays technology has NOTHING to do with the law.

IF someone can find specific information that the MD law is based on a cooling off period, it could be challenged like the CA case.

 

[Jim12]

I dunno, why do we still have to submit 2 shell casings that get tossed in a barrel?

It's MD that's why.

It helps to deter sales and drive up the cost. That's why. Anything to add complexity and increase prices.

 

[Ragnar]

Federal judge in California denies the state AG's request to further delay implementing the ruling to end the waiting period for those who already own guns.

http://www.presstelegram.com/general-news/20141128/judge-no-more-delay-to-enforce-gun-ruling/1

 

[Jack McCauley]

Doing any more than a NICS check, supposedly scouring all these databases to find ways to deny people.

They need to get over themselves. I know a lot of people here are of the mindset that everyone is just doing their jobs. Truth is, it's been job security for them, the more ******** anyone can come up with, the longer the background checks take......

The 7 day wait was originally "sold" (promoted) as a "cooling off period." The fact is the 7 day wait was originally implemented so the Department of State Police would have time to receive the application by mail and then return the notice to the dealer. When this process began, it was all completed by U.S. Mail. This could easily take 7 days to complete.

So why would the Department not allow a firearm to be released to a purchaser if this process was complete in three days? Because Maryland law said the person must wait 7 days. The Department of State Police simply had no control over that.

In the mid 90's, the Department of State Police failed to keep up with the 7 day check. Dealers were releasing firearms after the 7 day wait period. At the time, over 200 prohibited people received firearms without a background check being performed. A NICS check would have prevented this from occurring, but the Department refused to allow dealers to perform the NICS check on their own.

When this was uncovered, State Police Superintendent, David Mitchell, was irate. Several high ranking members of the Department were transferred and demoted. The Division was given a new command structure and they began changing internal practices. At the time, there were only 7 people performing the background checks. The Maryland Legislator approved a budget increase to the Department, allowing the manpower in this section to increase to 15 people. At the time, they were averaging only about 26,000 background checks a year.

As time passed and gun control issues quieted down, it was time for more budget cuts in the State of Maryland. In fact, the Department of State Police continued to have their budget cut year in and year out. The Licensing Division received so many personnel cuts that the number of people conducting these background checks dwindled from fifteen (15) to four (4) people in 2011. Despite the pleas of past commanders of the Division, supported by the Department for an increase in their budget, the State Police continued to face cuts. With Colonel Mitchell gone from the Department, this issue was forgotten.

With the election of Barrack Obama, guns sales continued to rise. The estimated increase in firearm sales were very accurately identified every year. The commander of the Licensing Division recognize a crash would again occur. Formal requests (very detailed reports that outlined the need for personnel) for a budget increase to hire additional personnel were denied.

To make matters worse, the building that occupied this entire division should have been condemned. The working conditions inside of a prison were better. In addition to countless other structural deficiencies, the air conditioning in the building was been broken since 2008. Many offices, without windows and no attempt for a solution, left employees working in temperatures at over 94 degrees. The archaic equipment (like one fax machine) was continually breaking down. The commanders requested approval for newer equipment and repairs to not just the air conditioning, but the remaining broken structures. But the requests were denied. The background checks were being conducted by four people, in horrific conditions, using computers that were now 12 years old. Request for funding to automate this process were also denied.

In comes the proposed legislation of the FSA13. The gun sales soared to over 100,000. The department couldn't keep up. One simple fix to ensuring that a prohibited person could not get a gun would be to allow dealers to perform a NICS check. Even members of the State Police Executive staff agreed this was a good idea. But, the Office of the Governor (not the State Police) decided not to allow that to happen.

The result? At least 30 people we know of, and likely many more, received a firearm without ANY background check. Commanders had been demoted and transferred for this same atrocity a little more than a decade before. But now, it was acceptable?

Dealers were always allowed to release a firearm after 7 days. Initially, a formal opinion from the FBI's counsel said this was not legal to perform. The ATF disagreed with the FBI. Maryland law said it was okay. But when pressed for answers, the FBI and the ATF remained silent. They refused to answer phone calls or return any emails on the subject. The conflicting opinions never went addressed by the people responsible for NICS. They simply refused to answer the question.

Some dealers chose to release guns, while others feared repercussion from the ATF. Some dealers didn't want to release a gun without a background check for moral implications while others understood it was not their fault; but, the refusal of the State of Maryland to allow the NICS check to be done.

The fact is a NICS check alone will never prevent ALL prohibited persons in Maryland from purchasing a firearm. But it will prevent anyone with a record of a violent criminal act. It will stop all felons. Many of the prohibiting factors under Maryland law are not identified in a NICS check. This requires additional work. Until recently, many of those checks included mental health records.

When the records checks backed up to over 100 days, the Governor's Office in Maryland knew that although all the records checks that covered Maryland law couldn't be performed, allowing a dealer to at least check NICS would prevent the most violent offenders from purchasing a firearm. Sure, some non-violent offenders may squeeze through the process. But at least the most serious offenders would be stopped. But, the Governor's Office refused to allow dealers to perform a NICS check, knowing guns would be released without any background check at all.

Instead of taking an action to ensure the safety of Maryland, guns dealers were accused of being irrational and refusing to wait the 100 days or more because of unexpected surges in firearms sales. The fact is, dealers saw the delays go from 8 days, to 10 days, to 30 days, to over 100. If they did not began releasing firearms at all, the department would still be working to clear the backlog and the delays would still be continuing. the problem would have been ignored.

One law maker tried to pass legislation that would require the dealers to wait until this check was performed, even if a backlog occurs. Wouldn't it have just been easier to have properly funded the department in the first place? Wouldn't it be easier for a dealer to perform a NICS check and then allow the State Police to perform whatever additional check they want? This would reduce the time constraints drastically. NICS is already set up to do 95% of the work. Yet we want to spend our tax dollars to do the work for them? It just doesn't make sense to me.

This process needs a complete overhaul. As for the 7 day wait? In reality, it was passed before electronic submissions. It was passed before fax machines. The 7 day wait was designed to allow the State Police to receive the application by U.S Mail, conduct the check and return to application by mail. The State Police originally asked for 30 days to do this. The MD Legislators bargained that delay down to 7 days and called it a cooling off period.

With an HQL, there should not be any further delays. An instant verification to ensure the HQL is still valid should be all that is needed. In fact, federal law allows for a waiver of the NICS check to be performed for states that have a purchasing license scheme such as the HQL. The state must first apply to the ATF for this exemption.

But please, don't accuse anyone within the Licensing Division for these delays. Until you have worked with this group of men and women, you don't know who they are, how they think, or what the reason is for a delay. The group of people that perform this background check have no control over this issue. They are given a job to do...check "X " amount of databases, evaluate any criminal offense (in whatever archaic database they are forced to deal with) and "not disapprove," or deny the sale. The only people responsible for this are the Superintendent of the State Police, The Governor's Office and Maryland's General Assembly. I suppose the workers could just take a stance and quit, leave the department and refuse to participate in this process. But, you too could do the same and just buy guns illegally on the street. Instead, many of us are trying to right this ship, identify the many many flaws and move forward with real solutions to gang and drug violence while we deal with unfair, controversial, and unconstitutional laws.

The fact is, Maryland's efforts to reduce violent crime is out of focus. The thousands of man hours spent each day to regulate lawful gun owners is only limiting our ability to go after the real problems that create gun crime. We need to reduce this type of work and instead increase gang and drug enforcement efforts.

 

[Mr H]

Thanks, Jack...

These are the things we hear on the 'inside' but can't always get the full scoop on, and that everyone else needs to hear!

 

[CypherPunk]

Is Maryland reporting all involuntary mental health commitments to NICS yet?

Is the DHHS database access still limited to hand carry, fax or email?

Is any of this interchange HIPPA compliant?

How many lives and tax dollars would we save by switching to NICS and freeing up Troopers to pursue crimes such as fraudulent firearm applications and straw purchases?

 

[Jack McCauley]

Yes Maryland is compliant with the mental health portion of the NICS requirements.
Starting in October, 2013 as a result of the Maryland Firearm Safety Act of 2013, individuals who were retained by the Office of Administrative Hearings (OAH) on an involuntary status were reported to the Department of Health and Mental Hygiene (DHMH) which reported to Criminal Justice Information System ( CJIS) who reported to NICS. Approximately 100 persons are reported to NICS.