Hogan "Not on the agenda"

[Boondock Saint]

Well, I guess I'm voting for the anti-gun Democratic gubernatorial candidate next time around...

 

[rob32]

I had kinda assumed Hogan wouldn't do anything about 2A in MD. It just isn't in his best interest to do so, not if he seeks re-election. However, I don't vote based on the best interests of politicians. I will be voting 3rd party in the next election.

 

[Boondock Saint]

Absolutely BOGGLES the mind.

 

[HRDWRK]

A lot of people on these forums seem to like to back Hogan up, despite having never received a promise that he will ever help Second Amendment rights here in Maryland. He has said so in the past that he won't reverse the notorious "Great Gun Ban of 2013". My question to you is: How is he any different than a democrat ? How is he even remotely worth voting for if paired against another Republican ? It seems to me that if he gets elected again it'll only be because he is the lesser of two evils. Full story in link, blurb below is edited.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-tax-or-gun-law-this-year-20160107-story.html

"Hogan, a Republican, also ruled out any effort to scale back O'Malley's hotly-contested 2013 gun control law despite calls from conservatives in his party for him to launch what would almost certainly be a futile effort.

At the news conference, Hogan was asked whether he would act on a recommendation from a local official that he seek to undo O'Malley's gun law -- one of the most restrictive in the country.

But Hogan, who campaigned on a pledge to focus on economic issues, declined.

"It's not on our agenda," he said."

3 posts total and this is your first post?

Introduction please!

 

[dblas]

I spoke with our local Rep, Deb Rey (R-St. Mary's), among others, about Hogan and his ability to do anything on the 2nd Amendment front.

People who think that because we have a Republican governor that we're going to get gun nirvana are seriously mistaken. The Democrats control both houses of the legislature by a veto-proof margin, so even if Hogan vetoes new legislation, they can still pass it. Unlike Barack, he can't issue executive orders or presidential memoranda to undo passed law (even if he was inclined to be a dictator, which he's not). He just can't.

He's a sophomore Republican Governor in a Democratically-controlled state. The Dems are looking for ANY wedge issue they can to make him a one-term governor (see also Erlich). He doesn't have the political capital to do ANYTHING for us on 2A issues. Stop expecting it. That doesn't make him a bad governor, especially considering what he's doing on taxation, which is the real tide on which he rode into office.

Finally, I'm tired of hearing the State Police Good & Substantial thing. The MSP takes their cues on the LAW from the Maryland Attorney General's office. Considering that fervent anti-gun zealot Brian Frosh occupies that office and has surrounded himself with like-minded minions, the MSP's hands are tied when it comes to interpretation of G&S law. Short of a favorable court outcome, there is nothing the Governor or Superintendent of the MSP can do.

That is the gist of my conversation with our delegate AND backed up by info from other reliable sources who know something of the law and legislature.

If you want to do something about it, get politically active, but don't expect Hogan to work miracles. You'll be waiting a long time.

I agree with everything above except what you highlighted. The AG has no say in what the Secretary can and cannot make G&S. And if Delegate Rey thinks that, she has a lot more to learn about the 2A in Maryland than I thought.

 

[dblas]

He can direct the head of MSP to start accepting self defense as a "good and substantial" reason to get a carry permit

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Self defense has been a G&S reason for over eight years per the MSP as Personal Protection. The issue isn't the definition, the issue is MSP's blatant overreach of their authority as granted by state statute and COMAR, with regards to the documentation they require to prove the need for personal protection.

 

[dblas]

I had assumed he would be capable of something along those lines. My guess is that he is unwilling to try anything like that right now with gun control being such a hot issue. He's obviously seeking re-election already. Unfortunate.

Here is a reason why he can't:

 

[dblas]

Were people here just not paying attention from 1972 to 2015 or something?

FTFY

 

[Ironsighter]

I agree with everything above except what you highlighted. The AG has no say in what the Secretary can and cannot make G&S. And if Delegate Rey thinks that, she has a lot more to learn about the 2A in Maryland than I thought.

I respectfully disagree with your position. Even if the head of the MSP were to try, the AG and his crew would step in and stop him.

The Governor and head of the MSP cannot ignore statutes.

You are welcome to ask one of the lawyers that haunt this forum, but I'm pretty sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere.

The only thing that will overturn G&S is a court case that rules G&S is unconstitutional.

The attachment to your own post, a ruling by the AG's office, makes it clear that the AG interprets the law and what the MSP superintendent can and cannot do with it. The phrase
"For these reasons it is my view that the Governor may not order the Secretary to interpret "good and substantial reason" to include self-defense" is in that attachment. Should G&S be challenged in another way, I have no doubt this AG's office would find a way to support the status quo. The fact that they ruled on it makes it clear that the AG controls the definition of G&S, not the MSP.

 

[jeffie7]

Well, I guess I'm voting for the anti-gun Democratic gubernatorial candidate next time around...

lol that's what I keep hearing.

 

[zoostation]

Going to go on a bit of a rant here, so please don't anyone take it personally as it isn't meant that way.

When I first read a thread by a member with three posts attacking Hogan my antenna immediately went up. No offense to the original poster but such threads are often not well-intended. Not saying that is the case here, just something people tend to watch for.

However, I still need to say a few things regarding Hogan's actions, or lack thereof.

Hogan could certainly order MSP to interpret G&S in a much more reasonable manner, the fact Frosh's office thinks general self-defense is too far of a stretch should be no surprise to anyone. However, even the opinion of Frosh's office states the governor has some degree of latitude in how to direct agencies to interpret the law and implement regulations.

I'm not criticizing Hogan because he hasn't ordered MSP to accept self-defense as a G&S reason. I'm criticizing him because he seems to do nothing about the permit issue at all. Here we are with things seemingly just as bad if not worse for people trying to apply for permits who have plenty of reasons beyond general self-defense and still being put through ridiculous levels of hoops before being denied by an unfriendly MSP and HPRB.

In my opinion Hogan either doesn't have control of his own agency or he doesn't care enough to do much for us if he does. I worked for police chiefs, directly for police chiefs, for enough years to know very well how much complete power their appointing executive holds over them and how tightly their agencies are watched and controlled. The excuse of "there's only so much he can do with MSP" rings very hollow to my ears, and in any case he can certainly do more than nothing.

It's nice Hogan wants to get re-elected. Given a choice between him and any democrat I would like to see him get re-elected too. Personally I doubt it's going to happen again no matter what he does. He won't have Anthony "Obamacare Website" Brown to run against next time, and you can bet the democrats won't take the next election for granted. Frankly I think Hogan would be better off doing what he wants instead of tiptoeing around in Republican apologist mode for four years. At least he would get something done.

 

[zoostation]

I respectfully disagree with your position. Even if the head of the MSP were to try, the AG and his crew would step in and stop him.

With all due respect the AG could not just step in and stop him. The AG does not have administrative power over anyone outside his own agency. The only thing Frosh could do would be to file a lawsuit against his own state. More than likely the legal challenge would come from the anti-gun groups who would file. A suit they might or might not win.

The letter you quote is also not a ruling by the Attorney General's office. It is an opinion and nothing more and has no legal weight beyond that.

 

[dblas]

I respectfully disagree with your position. Even if the head of the MSP were to try, the AG and his crew would step in and stop him.

The Governor and head of the MSP cannot ignore statutes.

You are welcome to ask one of the lawyers that haunt this forum, but I'm pretty sure this has been asked and answered elsewhere.

The only thing that will overturn G&S is a court case that rules G&S is unconstitutional.

I'm quite familiar with the statute.

5-306(a)-
(a) In general. -- Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:


5-306(a)(6)(ii) -
(6) based on an investigation:
(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport a handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

5-307(b) -
(b) Limitations. -- The Secretary may limit the geographic area, circumstances, or times of the day, week, month, or year in which a permit is effective.

The above emphasis is mine.

Per State Statute (that the General Assembly Passed and was signed into law back in 1972), the Secretary is well within his authority to set TPM restrictions. It is also well within the Secretary's discretion to accept other G&S reasons other than RPAD and can define same. Most importantly, the statute says "SHALL ISSUE" which, if the Secretary exercises his statutory authority and gets rid of all of the administrative BS and G&S reasons, leaves us with true Shall Issue, which AG Frosh can't do shit about because the Secretary is fully acting within the State Staute.

 

[Rhome3]

Going to go on a bit of a rant here, so please don't anyone take it personally as it isn't meant that way.

When I first read a thread by a member with three posts attacking Hogan my antenna immediately went up. No offense to the original poster but such threads are often not well-intended. Not saying that is the case here, just something people tend to watch for.

Long time lurker. I read the forums regularly to stay mostly up to date with what is happening and to see some conspiracy theories. It was an attack on Hogan, as I feel as our elected representative he hasn't even remotely addressed gun control in Maryland. He is not another member of these boards (doubt it). He's an elected official who deserves every amount of scrutiny he receives. So far I've seen that he knows how to borrow Chris Christie's playbook, who seems to be best friends with him, and stringing people along. I agree with the rest of your post -- he should be trying to do something. Which would be better than the nothing he is doing now. Obviously he's better than a democrat. But is our governor supposed to be the shiniest of two turds ?

 

[zoostation]

Long time lurker. I read the forums regularly to stay mostly up to date with what is happening and to see some conspiracy theories. It was an attack on Hogan, as I feel as our elected representative he hasn't even remotely addressed gun control in Maryland. He is not another member of these boards (doubt it). He's an elected official who deserves every amount of scrutiny he receives. So far I've seen that he knows how to borrow Chris Christie's playbook, who seems to be best friends with him, and stringing people along. I agree with the rest of your post -- he should be trying to do something. Which would be better than the nothing he is doing now. Obviously he's better than a democrat. But is our governor supposed to be the shiniest of two turds ?

Thank you for clarifying. We do get a lot of local anti-gunners and democratic party activists, both formal and informal, in disguise here so hopefully you understand why moderators watch very closely whenever a member without many posts introduces a controversial subject liable to cause consternation amongst members. It's not a problem if you want to discuss such things, just please don't be surprised when members are a wee bit wary. Thanks.

 

[dblas]

Long time lurker. I read the forums regularly to stay mostly up to date with what is happening and to see some conspiracy theories. It was an attack on Hogan, as I feel as our elected representative he hasn't even remotely addressed gun control in Maryland. He is not another member of these boards (doubt it). He's an elected official who deserves every amount of scrutiny he receives. So far I've seen that he knows how to borrow Chris Christie's playbook, who seems to be best friends with him, and stringing people along. I agree with the rest of your post -- he should be trying to do something. Which would be better than the nothing he is doing now. Obviously he's better than a democrat. But is our governor supposed to be the shiniest of two turds ?

He has done some things, check out the various HPRB threads.

As for doing more, perhaps he and his administration are trying to game out what they can do administratively? Perhaps, list administrative changes that can be made, look over them and figure out which ones will garner the least amount of scrutiny from the AG's office, and even if the AG opines on something, if they ignore the opinion, how much of a battle will they get into with the General Assembly trying to pass bills to correct the administrative changes. Let's say such a bill gets passed, then the Governor vetoes it, now we have to worry about a veto override, and perhaps a worse law than when he started.

Just spitballing here.....

 

[Mdeng]

A lot of people on these forums seem to like to back Hogan up, despite having never received a promise that he will ever help Second Amendment rights here in Maryland. He has said so in the past that he won't reverse the notorious "Great Gun Ban of 2013". My question to you is: How is he any different than a democrat ? How is he even remotely worth voting for if paired against another Republican ? It seems to me that if he gets elected again it'll only be because he is the lesser of two evils. Full story in link, blurb below is edited.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-tax-or-gun-law-this-year-20160107-story.html

"Hogan, a Republican, also ruled out any effort to scale back O'Malley's hotly-contested 2013 gun control law despite calls from conservatives in his party for him to launch what would almost certainly be a futile effort.

At the news conference, Hogan was asked whether he would act on a recommendation from a local official that he seek to undo O'Malley's gun law -- one of the most restrictive in the country.

But Hogan, who campaigned on a pledge to focus on economic issues, declined.

"It's not on our agenda," he said."

In the next election you should feel free to vote for Frosh. He is almost guaranteed to run.

 

[brownspotz]

I need an honest answer to the question of "how much worse could it have been if hogan didn't win?" realistically what could've happened as high taxes and crime are an institution/normal in md... also "muh 2a rights" do not apply here as MD doesn't recognize them.

 

[ar154u]

When your elected officials won't do their job on their own you have to force their hand. The last time I checked I am a citizen of the United Stated of America who resides in Maryland. I am a citizen first and resident second. I have the same right to carry a firearm as anyone else in this state, other states, and the United States. Our courts system exists to challenge laws which are unconstitutional. Each and every one of us Maryland residents have a 14th Amendment case against Maryland. We are too chickenshit to do anything about it. On any given day I can log in on this forum and read posts from like minded individuals who complain they need to pass this, they need to pass that, Hogan will save us. The only ones who can save us is us. We need to come together enmass and those of us who can afford it get the training and go through the process of getting a CCW. Do not allow MSP to return money, make them go through the process of mass denial and mass hearings. Then the group can launch a 14th Amendment lawsuit against Maryland with numerous Plaintiffs.

Why are we not doing this? No body but us is going to save us. If you are standing on a boat that is sinking and there are enough men with buckets to bail out water and keep the ship from sinking are you going to use the buckets or wait for someone to fetch you out of the water. It's been 4 years since Wollard and nothing has changed. The common man can not get a CCW in Maryland. How much longer do we need to wait?

 

[Gryphon]

I'm quite familiar with the statute.

5-306(a)-
(a) In general. -- Subject to subsection (c) of this section, the Secretary shall issue a permit within a reasonable time to a person who the Secretary finds:


5-306(a)(6)(ii) -
(6) based on an investigation:
(ii) has good and substantial reason to wear, carry, or transport handgun, such as a finding that the permit is necessary as a reasonable precaution against apprehended danger.

5-307(b) -
(b) Limitations. -- The Secretary may limit the geographic area, circumstances, or times of the day, week, month, or year in which a permit is effective.

The above emphasis is mine.

Per State Statute (that the General Assembly Passed and was signed into law back in 1972), the Secretary is well within his authority to set TPM restrictions. It is also well within the Secretary's discretion to accept other G&S reasons other than RPAD and can define same. Most importantly, the statute says "SHALL ISSUE" which, if the Secretary exercises his statutory authority and gets rid of all of the administrative BS and G&S reasons, leaves us with true Shall Issue, which AG Frosh can't do shit about because the Secretary is fully acting within the State Staute.

Thank you Dblas for repeatedly trying to help others get past their own feelings and to learn the actual law.