Gun search question at traffic stop based on NRA sticker

[lowoncash]

If ask if you have a firearm in the vehicle I'm guessing it would not be the best idea to say "no, do you have any spare ones?"

 

[Corporal Doug]

Reading through all this it’s a great thread. I have a very small spikes tactical sticker on the side window of my truck and a proud of my eagle scout. That’s it. I had a car keyed once for a political sticker and since then I don’t do it anymore. Call it Opsec, call me a coward whatever. I don’t wear my junk on my sleeve anymore. I do my part in other ways and I tend to find that that most billboard people are fairly apathetic when the rubber meets the road and asked to do something anyways.

As far as LEO’s go in this State? Don’t like us treating you like the Gestapo? Don’t treat us all like perps, plain and simple. I get pulled over I expect to be greeted by a JBT just like you expect everyone and their grandmother to blow you away.

Complain that you have families you all want to get home to? Get another job, start a lawn care business. It works both ways folks. But some people forget that the police are the face of the regime in Annapolis. Sorry state it is but that’s how it goes. I applaud the comments of the current and former LEOs that see it this way too. Too bad you couldn’t have more influence on the various departments you were in. I’d point out the other comments but you know who you are when you point out that you can do anything you want to trip up a person into consenting to a search. Good for you.

Never thought about the comments on the K9s making hits on command, that’s pretty good. I’ll have to remember that one. I think it would be pretty cool to take that in front of a judge.

Did you even read my post? I explained that we treat everyone the same because people don't like profiling. Profiling doesn't work to begin with do why shouldn't we treat everyone the same? Now what I am saying goes along with the old Marine Corps saying: be professional and polite, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet." I don't mean that in the literal sense but the idea is there. I treat everyone respectfully and professionally while doing my job, but I also have excellent officer safety mindset and awareness and always have a plan to act if someone wants to break bad.

There is no need for the whole "if you can't hack it find a new job" speech. The only people that should say that have done the job. In fact the entire statement is null if you are suggesting that police officers should not act in a safe manner. There is no reason anyone should die our be seriously injured on the job, that's why all workplaces have measures in place to mitigate the dangers, police should not be exempt even though our job isn't "the most dangerous". Other jobs danger also don't always have the dynamic behavior of human interaction where people want to kill you for no other reason than the profession you choose.

Are you suggesting that we should not treat everyone fairly? If you are tatted up and wearing gang colors driving a pos car with Dubs, should I treat you like a criminal then? (Whatever that actually means.) You might have to clarify what you mean by treating people like criminals. Is it because we ask questions like "do you have anything illegal in the car?" Even if you don't "look" like a criminal.

I can tell you what would happen if I only asked "shady" people that question: a good defense attorney will argue that I profiled their client and being scrutiny upon myself. Hence why we try to maintain consistency. It's not like we draw down on everyone during a traffic stop and order them out at gunpoint because the driver might actually be a criminal that wants to kill us. It's a simple question, don't like it? Don't answer it. No harm done. if you are seriously THAT offended by the question then start standing against criminals with us and help us make it less attractive to be a piece of shit. We don't know who the criminals are by looking at them and if we don't know you forgive us for taking done simple precautions that don't affect you.

 

[Minuteman]

At least this discussion is still mostly on topic, civil and informative.

I understand the argument of an officer being able to say in court that they routinely ask if there is a firearm or anything illegal. But to an innocent driver who might get pulled over once in a blue moon for a minor infraction; I can also understand how they might take this as fishing or be somewhat offended. What I can't understand is when people become rude or belligerent; treat everyone with dignity or respect.

I think some are still in need of some very basic legal explanations on this topic; I'm not a lawyer, and I found this useful: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-rights/illegal-search-and-seizure-faqs.html

 

[trailman]

I will call your bra shaking and raise you a colonoscopy.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/16/justice/new-mexico-search-settlement/

I'd have asked for a dollar in damages and for the officers to undergo the same treatment I received.

 

[Odiferous Maximus]

It is pretty apparent you sat through, and maybe passed, 1 criminal justice class.....but you clearly don't understand the concepts beyond someone getting in front of you and speaking.

It's not automatically invalid and it's certainly not invalid due to "intimidation" as you described.

I won't even tackle your previous ill formed and explained post in this thread.

Criminal Justice class? Never took one, but I did watch an episode of COPS from time to time.

I do, however, understand my rights. Want to search my car? Nope, sorry...it ain't happening.

If my situation happened again I'd just sit there, mute, while the officer held onto my DL...I wouldn't say a damned thing...because I'd feel "intimidated."

 

[Name Taken]

Criminal Justice class? Never took one, but I did watch an episode of COPS from time to time.

I do, however, understand my rights. Want to search my car? Nope, sorry...it ain't happening.

If my situation happened again I'd just sit there, mute, while the officer held onto my DL...I wouldn't say a damned thing...because I'd feel "intimidated."

So your knowledge base which you try to pass informative information through to others is a Cops show from time to time?

That's what makes it so hard to take these threads seriously...a handful of folks actually have an understanding of the law, criminal procedure, department procedure, real world experience and the others pipe up with "TV knowledge" and again try to pass it off as actual knowledge.

Please continue to post what you think is factual from your sofa sitting evenings. I will just accept you are clueless to the matters being posted and there is no need for further conversation about them with you. Hopefully the less knowledgeable folks don't by into your gospel.

 

[paperwork351]

I'm just as confused reading this and other threads. Yes to the guns question if asked and no to the search? I am traveling in accordance with MD transport law.

 

[TheGunnyRet]

Maybe your vehicle had an APB on it for a crime in the area at that time, "Who Knows" the Police saw your car being a close match??, they pull you over. I don't really know why you got pulled over except for the Tail Light (Gave the Police a reason), okay, be respectfull maintain "your" composure and exsert your rights. Profiling "maybe" don't know, if you feel "violated" file a complaint to get your answers, if there was no harm no foul. Hey it could have been worse.

 

[teratos]

A Gadsden flag has now been placed right next to my NRA sticker on the rear glass.

I expect 8 cars now.

I have a Gadsden. I never get more than one car even after informing the Trooper I am carrying a gun. All MDTA on I-95.

 

[Odiferous Maximus]

So your knowledge base which you try to pass informative information through to others is a Cops show from time to time?

That's what makes it so hard to take these threads seriously...a handful of folks actually have an understanding of the law, criminal procedure, department procedure, real world experience and the others pipe up with "TV knowledge" and again try to pass it off as actual knowledge.

Please continue to post what you think is factual from your sofa sitting evenings. I will just accept you are clueless to the matters being posted and there is no need for further conversation about them with you. Hopefully the less knowledgeable folks don't by into your gospel.

That was sarcasm...anyway, my point was this:

If you pull a guy over for a tail light, handle the tail light deal and move on.

Hanging onto the guy's DL while saying that he has the right to refuse a search, to me, isn't right.

How about handing the DL back to the driver, and THEN asking him to consent to a search?

Believe it or not, there are people out there who think that their car can be searched any time they're pulled over. It happened to my teenaged neice because the officer said that he smelled marijuana when she drove by (there wasn't any, by the way) Add the fact that an officer is still holding on to their DL and, yes, many people would feel intimidated, and consent to a search "because if they're not doing anything wrong they shouldn't have anything to worry about."

 

[StantonCree]

That was sarcasm...anyway, my point was this:

If you pull a guy over for a tail light, handle the tail light deal and move on.

Hanging onto the guy's DL while saying that he has the right to refuse a search, to me, isn't right.

How about handing the DL back to the driver, and THEN asking him to consent to a search?

Believe it or not, there are people out there who think that their car can be searched any time they're pulled over. It happened to my teenaged neice because the officer said that he smelled marijuana when she drove by (there wasn't any, by the way) Add the fact that an officer is still holding on to their DL and, yes, many people would feel intimidated, and consent to a search "because if they're not doing anything wrong they shouldn't have anything to worry about."

Yup just handle the situation and move on


Damn pesky traffic stops



Should of just written the ticket and sent him on his way (btw even though it doesn't look like it, it was later revealed the man in the trunk was a kidnapped store clerk)

 

[Odiferous Maximus]

Okay...I get it...I'm not trying to bash LEOs here...I DO have a great amount of respect for you guys and the work y'all do.

So to slightly change the topic...(I can't watch videos at work)...did the driver consent to a search knowing that he had people in the trunk, or did the officer notice something - body language, sweating, non-verbal clues - that took him from RS to PC?

 

[rambling_one]

Wow. Pretty sure I would've just kindly told them to go self-fornicate with a chainsaw and turned around and went home. Whatever happened to the obnoxiously nice Canadian stereotype?

Well, this trip was dedicated to meeting various horse owners and riding their mounts. The Winnipeg family set aside a three-day weekend which included taking a Friday off from work to make it all happen. They were "nice Canadians" in every sense of the word. My wife and I had a great time.

One Canadian border agent told me on the QT that what we witnessed was a move in Ottawa to advertise the government's disdain for firearms.

 

[StantonCree]

Okay...I get it...I'm not trying to bash LEOs here...I DO have a great amount of respect for you guys and the work y'all do.

So to slightly change the topic...(I can't watch videos at work)...did the driver consent to a search knowing that he had people in the trunk, or did the officer notice something - body language, sweating, non-verbal clues - that took him from RS to PC?

I'm just being a dick bro I dunno but you never know until you ask. I've caught a lot of guns doing things that are just basic. I've only arrested one guy with a CCW and to be honest he deserved jail the most out of all of them hahahaha, sadly I'm serious.

 

[Blackstar65]

What's funny about this thread is I have the following stickers on my jeep: magpul, surefire, blue force gear, BCM , NRA, and a GOW cog skull sticker. Regular tags (non fop). I usually travel during prime hunting hours. Never been stopped.

 

[kgain673]

What's funny about this thread is I have the following stickers on my jeep: magpul, surefire, blue force gear, BCM , NRA, and a GOW cog skull sticker. Regular tags (non fop). I usually travel during prime hunting hours. Never been stopped.

That's because you probably don't drive like an *******, keep the equipment functional on your car and don't your days driving around intoxicated. Does anyone else see a trend here?

 

[StantonCree]

What's funny about this thread is I have the following stickers on my jeep: magpul, surefire, blue force gear, BCM , NRA, and a GOW cog skull sticker. Regular tags (non fop). I usually travel during prime hunting hours. Never been stopped.

Only one logical explanation.......aliens

 

[OrbitalEllipses]

That's because you probably don't drive like an *******, keep the equipment functional on your car and don't your days driving around intoxicated. Does anyone else see a trend here?

Just because you're one doesn't mean you're the others...

 

[kgain673]

Just because you're one doesn't mean you're the others...[/QUOTE

But if the shoe fits........

 

[trickg]

Something else to consider, and I know that it isn't right but it is what it is, is whether or not you physically appear to be the redneck gun owner stereotype.

Take my son for example. These days he's cultivating this counter-culture image - big bushy beard, big tat on his forearm (I didn't really approve of the placement of that one, but it's his body, right?) and he clothes himself in Vans shoes, jeans, t-shirts and plaid flannel button-downs.

I see it all the time when we are in social settings with people who don't know him well. They assume certain attitudes and behaviors of him, simply based on his appearance, when in fact he isn't anything like what people expect him to be. He's intelligent, exceedingly polite, and is a very friendly amicable person.

When he loses the beard and dresses differently, he almost has movie star good looks, but the truth of it is, you get pre-judged based on how you look. I want him to be himself, but man, I wish he'd lose the Duck Dynasty look because his interactions with people would be a lot different. I shudder to think what it might go like if he's ever pulled over because the officer is going to assume he's a punk with an attitude.

My appearance, on the other hand, is nothing like that. I've been clean cut and clean shaven since I joined (and subsequently left in 1999) the Army in 1989, so any time I've been pulled over, my experience has never been negative.