Gov. Hogan Appoints New HPRB Members

[Schipperke]

FYI - Dick Jurgena is one of us. He is mutual friends on FB with friends of mine; I have read enough of his posts to endorse him with confidence.

Considering the other two as well, this may be the back door people have been waiting for. Snowden and Scherr in the circular file maybe. From what I read here, this board has the ultimate say. More than one way to skin a cat. Need to hope these new appointments are activists..

 

[erwos]

Interesting theory. So, the premise here, that we're going to get shall-issue, but you'll have to appeal your initial denial to get it? I suppose that's progress, but it's not exactly a permanent solution. Reminds me a lot of how New York does it - you can get your permit, but the hoops and expensive are so annoying that hardly anyone does.

 

[Brooklyn]

Res judica?

 

[44man]

Interesting theory. So, the premise here, that we're going to get shall-issue, but you'll have to appeal your initial denial to get it? I suppose that's progress, but it's not exactly a permanent solution. Reminds me a lot of how New York does it - you can get your permit, but the hoops and expensive are so annoying that hardly anyone does.

if that works I will apply as soon as I have proof but I cant see the MSP allowing the board to turn over all of their denials. but if it works I am in.

 

[montoya32]

if that works I will apply as soon as I have proof but I cant see the MSP allowing the board to turn over all of their denials. but if it works I am in.

They have no control. The board is there to hear appeals and make a decision.

 

[Schipperke]

Interesting theory. So, the premise here, that we're going to get shall-issue, but you'll have to appeal your initial denial to get it? I suppose that's progress, but it's not exactly a permanent solution. Reminds me a lot of how New York does it - you can get your permit, but the hoops and expensive are so annoying that hardly anyone does.

Yes.

I'd really need to see credible evidence the board is rubber stamping. From other "opinion" , if this board actually does this then some believe the initial inquisition may soften. I can't recall, but I've read where states that were may issue, became near shall issue in effect. Maybe this a way to change, but does no good if the next board selected pulls the Snowden , Scherr files back in. If people are correct that this board can counter disapproval and are the last arbiter, all it takes are activist appointments.

 

[Brooklyn]

Oh good. Theres still no hope..I was worried for a second...

 

[Gryphon]

Oh good. Theres still no hope..I was worried for a second...

You have really been turning on the lifeboat humor lately!

 

[44man]

They have no control. The board is there to hear appeals and make a decision.

they would have all the control if they could do what was stated above and give everyone turned down by the MSP a permit. I just don't see that happening but if it did I would apply now.

I agree hogans appointments are a step in the right direction I just don't know how big a step.

 

[montoya32]

they would have all the control if they could do what was stated above and give everyone turned down by the MSP a permit. I just don't see that happening but if it did I would apply now.



I agree hogans appointments are a step in the right direction I just don't know how big a step.

My comment was in reference to someone saying they can't see the MSP allowing that to happen. The MSP has no control over what the HPRB does.

 

[44man]

My comment was in reference to someone saying they can't see the MSP allowing that to happen. The MSP has no control over what the HPRB does.

I know but if the hprb starts approving every applicant that is denied by the msp I wonder how that would play out? it would suit me just fine and maybe its going to be the way around the system but it seems unlikely, but if it were to work I would be tickled pink.

 

[Drew1340]

how soon til we find out a decision from the board based on self defense?
as people are pointing out it is a big step and the fact that the board has final say and msp cant stop that this is great if it works... however doesn't msp basically discourage allowing permit applicants to even get that far? obviously they cant prevent it if you have enough time and money to continue pushing, but it seems like they will find a new way to prevent it going to the board? by no means am I trying to be a downer.... just tryin to play out the angles and I may misunderstand parts of this process as well

 

[montoya32]

I know but if the hprb starts approving every applicant that is denied by the msp I wonder how that would play out? it would suit me just fine and maybe its going to be the way around the system but it seems unlikely, but if it were to work I would be tickled pink.

I am sure anything that nets more permits will ruffle liberal feathers, but this is the meal they prepared so they can choke on it.

 

[Brooklyn]

how soon til we find out a decision from the board based on self defense?
as people are pointing out it is a big step and the fact that the board has final say and msp cant stop that this is great if it works... however doesn't msp basically discourage allowing permit applicants to even get that far? obviously they cant prevent it if you have enough time and money to continue pushing, but it seems like they will find a new way to prevent it going to the board? by no means am I trying to be a downer.... just tryin to play out the angles and I may misunderstand parts of this process as well

Ever see a damn give way? Its not all at once..

Smart folks who know this game are on it...

But once the damn begins to give.....

It will not be one by one...

It no guaranteed..if you want that.. move to America.. and hope the liberals do not follow..

Meanwhile I trust the leadership we have...

 

[montoya32]

how soon til we find out a decision from the board based on self defense?
as people are pointing out it is a big step and the fact that the board has final say and msp cant stop that this is great if it works... however doesn't msp basically discourage allowing permit applicants to even get that far? obviously they cant prevent it if you have enough time and money to continue pushing, but it seems like they will find a new way to prevent it going to the board? by no means am I trying to be a downer.... just tryin to play out the angles and I may misunderstand parts of this process as well

I know they have been skirted or ignored in the past, but there are timelines that MSP is supposed to follow. I think if it becomes known to Hogan and Pallozi that MSP is not honoring state law, then 1.) internal affair complaints can be made against the offending employee or 2.) Hogan and Pallozi should put a stop to it.

This is no surefire way to correct the problem and there is no light switch to flip in order to correct everything, but we are moving in the proper direction.

 

[Jaybeez]

I know but if the hprb starts approving every applicant that is denied by the msp I wonder how that would play out? it would suit me just fine and maybe its going to be the way around the system but it seems unlikely, but if it were to work I would be tickled pink.

this was one of the paths fortold in the prophecies of 2014

 

[44man]

this was one of the paths fortold in the prophecies of 2014

like I said, it would tickle me pink if it works.

 

[Gryphon]

I think of there being multiple options. Pallozzi can relax G&S to include self-defense, or at least reasonably articulated self-defense. So far crickets. If he fails to do so as authorized under the law and continues down the same path as Brown, applicants can appeal their not approved to the Board. Nothing prevents the current Board from deciding Scherr and Snowden are no longer applicable given more recent 2A case decisions. Of course that would require them to adopt a new standard, which they may be reluctant to do as inconsistent with Pallozzi's statutory discretion to define G&S. If the Board declines to invoke it's own discretion, and just continue to rely on Scherr and Snowden, there would be no perceived change to the status quo.

Even so there would be a valid basis to petition for judicial review seeking a court order declaring Scherr and Snowden no longer valid, and forcing a remand to the Board (and implicity to Pallozzi) to come up with a new definition for G&S. Of course any such decision could be appealed to COSA, but that appeal would need to be initiated by the Board Itself.

The easy way is for Pallozzi or the Board, both appointed by Hogan, to act. But if they fail there still may be judicial opportunities, but that will take time, which I don't think Hogan will have if he wants to keep some of our votes.

 

[tomh]

They have no control. The board is there to hear appeals and make a decision.

I think there is a logic flaw here. Everyone is looking for a "Positive" in the new appointments - thinking perhaps they will overrule the denials taking place, in favor of a "Good and Substantial" reason being based on the 2nd Amendment and nothing else.

It would have been far easier for Hogan to instruct the MSP that self-defense is a good and substantial reason. After all the head of the MSP reports to the Governor.

If he, the Governor, intended to restore the 2nd Amendment rights to MD, that would be the easiest way to do so.

Given the legislature, it wouldn't last past his own tenure however. And it would cause problems with all other political activity.

Still his appointments might be a good thing, only time will tell.

 

[montoya32]

I think there is a logic flaw here. Everyone is looking for a "Positive" in the new appointments - thinking perhaps they will overrule the denials taking place, in favor of a "Good and Substantial" reason being based on the 2nd Amendment and nothing else.



It would have been far easier for Hogan to instruct the MSP that self-defense is a good and substantial reason. After all the head of the MSP reports to the Governor.



If he, the Governor, intended to restore the 2nd Amendment rights to MD, that would be the easiest way to do so.



Given the legislature, it wouldn't last past his own tenure however. And it would cause problems with all other political activity.



Still his appointments might be a good thing, only time will tell.

Easy isn't always the best. We will see in the long run.