Engage to sell so called "smart gun"

[ThawMyTongue]

It has nothing to do with whether shops carry it. They banned the most popular rifles in the while Country. They have an agenda. They will mandate smart guns if they want to. This line of thinking is just as bad as the libs. You are blaming an inanimate object for actions they have nothing to do with. My AR-15 influences me to become a mass murderer about as much as smart guns influence lawmakers to pass laws infringing on our Rights.

Well said Doc!

 

[rseymorejr]

I can't imagine anyone would willingly buy one of these things

 

[JohnnyE]

Perhaps we shall agree to disagree, but please, regarding your line of reasoning, clarify something for me. You state that it isn't easy for a person to get an FFL just to aid the antis, yet you state that Armatix is an entire company, and not a lone FFL-holder, that exists to get rid of all guns. I find the concept of one person getting an FFL, (or an existing FFL-holder flipping sides), to aid the antis to be far easier to accomplish and more plausible than a group of people and investors going to the trouble and expense of creating a licensed firearms manufacturer just to devote itself to getting rid of all guns, thus putting themselves out of business. Also, the question of why an FFL-holder got his FFL is not relevant. All that would matter is that a sale took place.

Like SUGARMANN, JOSHUA ALAN, founder and Executive Director of the Violence policy center getting an FFL, in DC? That could never happen, you have to engage in the business to get an FFL.

Oh, wait, he DOES have an FFL...In DC.
SUGARMANN, JOSHUA ALAN 1730 RHODE ISLAND AVE NW #1014 WASHINGTON DC 20036 1730 RHODE ISLAND AVE NW #1014 WASHINGTON DC 20036 2028228200

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/f...il/XLS/0414-ffl-list-district-of-columbia.xls

To "blame" Engage for anything here is ludicrous. They are, and always have been, on our side.

Q.E.D. Thank you for closing the loop.

 

[ThisGuy918]

So teratos, next year when they roll out the smart gun legislation and use Andy's quotes against us, to justify ramming it through, will you still support this decision? You know they will use it, he said it to the Washington post for gods sake. I understand his motivation and intentions, but isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions?

 

[ThawMyTongue]

.

 

[NateIU10]

Please do but email me at andy@engagearmament.com, call the shop at 301-838-3151, or swing by the shop if you have a minute.

Or if we can keep it civil we can do it here.

Andy, I love the openness to discuss this. I'll be in the area tomorrow and Saturday and will be stopping by one of them (not to discuss this.)

 

[teratos]

So teratos, next year when they roll out the smart gun legislation and use Andy's quotes against us, to justify ramming it through, will you still support this decision? You know they will use it, he said it to the Washington post for gods sake. I understand his motivation and intentions, but isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions?

The existence of the technology does not give license to eradicate all previous technology. Andy's words won't be used against us because he is not advocating smart guns as the only technology that should exist. He is not saying it is better or safer. He is offering an option for those who want it. Banning Glocks fails the "common use" test put forth in Heller. Mandating this technology is Unconstitutional and violates anti-trust laws. I support his decision. I am speaking for me here and not MSI. I don't think they feel the need to justify anything to us. The sure didn't give a fvck what Andy said when they were hearing SB281.

 

[radial]

So teratos, next year when they roll out the smart gun legislation and use Andy's quotes against us, to justify ramming it through, will you still support this decision? You know they will use it, he said it to the Washington post for gods sake. I understand his motivation and intentions, but isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions?

Yeah, that's my main concern.

And speaking strictly from a business perspective, I would also be concerned. Hell, I'm in business myself, so I understand the need to follow the market. But you don't follow the other sheep when they lead you over the edge of the cliff.

 

[JohnnyE]

So teratos, next year when they roll out the smart gun legislation and use Andy's quotes against us, to justify ramming it through, will you still support this decision? You know they will use it, he said it to the Washington post for gods sake. I understand his motivation and intentions, but isn't the road to hell paved with good intentions?

Correct me if I am reading you the wrong way, but it appears to me you are saying, if Andy did nothing and said nothing, the smart gun genie would remain in the bottle, or at least not be aided by some comments by a Maryland manufacturer of AR's, and seller of AK's until 10/1/13, and so forth.

The smart gun ship has sailed. Any effort expended arguing among ourselves is wasted effort.

 

[Skins_Brew]

Find some youtube video of Andy testifying in Annapolis and tell me that guy is not one of the biggest supporters of the 2A there is.

Honestly, I think Andy and the Engage crew are geniuses. They are pumping out MD complaint AR (which are BAD ASS, FYI) and now they are basically being praised by one of the most liberal papers in the country.

 

[MDNavyVet]

At roughly $1800.00 each, with the exception of some collectors, I don't see too many soccer moms running out to purchase one. The market will certainly dictate the future of the Armatix pistol. Although I support the right of any business to sell what they want, I don't see anything really good coming from selling this gun here in MD or anywhere else for that matter. I hope to be proven wrong but I don't think so. Just look at the division here.

 

[ThisGuy918]

You know they don't care about laws, they have proved that over and over. They will mandate this as required and let us flounder fighting it in court. Even if it is overturned by a miracle, they will just pass another law the next year that slides by. Your crusade to protect your friends is a fool's errand and will only end badly.

 

[occbrian]

Why would MSI chime in? This is a respected retailer exercising a Right to sell what he chooses. The selling of the gun itself will in no way influence the passing of any legislation regarding smart gun technology. The very existence of the technology is all the legislators need. Believe me, they know it exists. Like I said before, a retailer selling a smart gun has as much chance of influencing legislators as my AR does making me a mass murderer.....

QFT.

 

[ThisGuy918]

Correct me if I am reading you the wrong way, but it appears to me you are saying, if Andy did nothing and said nothing, the smart gun genie would remain in the bottle, or at least not be aided by some comments by a Maryland manufacturer of AR's, and seller of AK's until 10/1/13, and so forth.

The smart gun ship has sailed. Any effort expended arguing among ourselves is wasted effort.

Yes, the genie is out of the bottle on these guns and has been for a while. However, by stocking them they keep the manufacturer in business and the topic relevant. They don't get to stock them for free and could have done this quietly instead of nationally. By agreeing to be interviewed by the Washington post, Andy has provided the antis with enough quotes to write articles for years. All this did was accelerate the anti agenda that doesn't care about right or laws. Do you understand what I'm saying now.

 

[Norton]

threads merged.

 

[ericoak]

Groups like Bloomberg, Wash Post, Seatle Times, NYT all love Armatix.

Do they love it because they think it will lead to more firearms being sold or more government control of firearms?

 

[El_flasko]

If we truly care about rights, then we should also support Engage's right to sell what they wish. Anything else is hypocrisy IMO.

That's FREEDOM.

Yes I am a happy and very satisfied Engage customer.

Could not have said it better myself. Agreed on all points.

 

[teratos]

Yes, the genie is out of the bottle on these guns and has been for a while. However, by stocking them they keep the manufacturer in business and the topic relevant. They don't get to stock them for free and could have done this quietly instead of nationally. By agreeing to be interviewed by the Washington post, Andy has provided the antis with enough quotes to write articles for years. All this did was accelerate the anti agenda that doesn't care about right or laws. Do you understand what I'm saying now.

It accelerated nothing. The fact that the technology exists is all they need to proceed. To believe a retailer selling one of these monstrosities will influence our strongly anti-gun legislature to do anything faster is just delusional.

 

[ThisGuy918]

Why would MSI chime in? This is a respected retailer exercising a Right to sell what he chooses. The selling of the gun itself will in no way influence the passing of any legislation regarding smart gun technology. The very existence of the technology is all the legislators need. Believe me, they know it exists. Like I said before, a retailer selling a smart gun has as much chance of influencing legislators as my AR does making me a mass murderer.....

QFT.

So according to occbrian's post above, MSI officially supports the action of engage?

 

[JohnnyE]

Our 2A friends don't need protection since I believe you are correct in observing "...they (legislators) don't care about laws, they have proved that over and over. They will mandate this as required and let us flounder fighting it in court. Even if it is overturned by a miracle, they will just pass another law the next year that slides by."

I believe blaming Engage is the true fool's errand. Their actions are irrelevant. The mere existence of the technology is enough for legislators to claim it is the latest solution, sell it to the masses, and vote it into law.