CETME Model L (.223) in the US

[Bertfish]

You'll have to weld the receiver yourself, but we can definitely teach you on some scrap. I also have a small mig if you have experience with that.

Is that due to it being an 80% receiver?

 

[ericoak]

From the forgotten weapons video, they said the ATF considers it to be a firearm as soon as the flat is bent enough for the 2 sides to touch. They even have a special effect when it is officially a firearm.

 

[wbw2123]

Is that due to it being an 80% receiver?

From the forgotten weapons video, they said the ATF considers it to be a firearm as soon as the flat is bent enough for the 2 sides to touch. They even have a special effect when it is officially a firearm.

Yes, just like the hk 9-series of receivers it is a firearm once folded.

There's more though. Short answer is the ATF considers the act of finishing a partially complete receiver/firearm to be gunsmithing and in some cases manufacturing. No homebuilder is licensed to do either for another homebuilder. If you were to have an FFL legally do the work for you, they must log it and mark it accordingly.

ETA....with the new EO guidelines regarding ITAR there is now even less that will be considered gunsmithing and much more that falls under manufacturing. There's another thread on it around here somewhere.

 

[Bertfish]

Anyone see any more barrels floating around? Apex still has the parts kits but no barrels.

 

[wbw2123]

They're made in batches and apex has plenty of kits left. You might call them and see when they are doing the next run.

Mine are turned from RCM hammer forged hk33 barrels. I would consider trading one for a finished RCM CHF HK33 if that's easier to track down. Or you could have a 33 barrel turned locally for you.

 

[wbw2123]

From apex posted on weaponsguild. You might join if you aren't already a member.

Barrels for the .223 Model L / LV / LC and the CETME 7.62 Model C are on order.
The barrels have a LONG lead time before they are delivered.
I joined with SARCO on the Model L / LV / LC barrels, so we both should receive them within a week of each other.
I would never "hold" barrels! That just ties up a lot of money.
In fact, I really don't like stocking new barrels as it ties up a lot of money and can be a very slow return.
Customer Service has a listing of companies that stock barrels and we are happy to refer our customers when they ask.

 

[Bertfish]

From apex posted on weaponsguild. You might join if you aren't already a member.

Well good, sounds like they are on their way. Might pick up another kit.

 

[wbw2123]

As it happens, I just ordered a collapsable stock LC variant that they listed tonight. Check the apex site now if you want an LC kit.

That means I'll have an extra L kit.

 

[Bertfish]

Holy crap I wanted one of those LC kits too - called APEX a while back and they said they wouldn't be getting them. I'll be ordering one of those.

 

[jjones88]

I grabbed an LV awhile back to go with the night vision scope they sold. I plan to try an HMG flat on that one since the Gen 3 flats from jestism still dont match that quality.

 

[wbw2123]

I might be interested in an HGM flat if they are really that much better.... Has anyone actually seen their flat in person? Everything on the website looks like a rendering to me and renderings often don't match production pieces.

 

[drive_accord_ingly]

I remember back in the late 90's. I had a Fal/G1 kit built. That was a really nice G1 Kit too. I got the kit for just under $200 and the receiver was somewhere in the $250 territory.

It may not go the same way with these Cetme's, but that Fal/G1 story had a happy ending...sorta.

 

[Bertfish]

As it happens, I just ordered a collapsable stock LC variant that they listed tonight. Check the apex site now if you want an LC kit.

That means I'll have an extra L kit.

If you decide to offload that L kit let me know, I might be a buyer.

I'm always behind the curve on these things; always hear stories of how cheap things used to be.

 

[jjones88]

I might be interested in an HGM flat if they are really that much better.... Has anyone actually seen their flat in person? Everything on the website looks like a rendering to me and renderings often don't match production pieces.

I haven't just watch the inRange build on Full30 and it "appeared" to go a heck of a lot smoother than what we have gone through with at least the gen1 flats

 

[IanFW]

You'll have to weld the receiver yourself, but we can definitely teach you on some scrap. I also have a small mig if you have experience with that.

FWIW, my understanding is that legally, bending the flat into shape is what makes it into a gun. Once you get to welding, it's already legally a gun.

I haven't just watch the inRange build on Full30 and it "appeared" to go a heck of a lot smoother than what we have gone through with at least the gen1 flats

It really was a pretty straightforward process. We had a slight bit of filing (really just a tiny bit) to fix alignment on the rear weldment, which HMG said was being fixed in their commercial run of flats. Everything else just fit and worked, as you see in the video.

I might be interested in an HGM flat if they are really that much better.... Has anyone actually seen their flat in person? Everything on the website looks like a rendering to me and renderings often don't match production pieces.

I posted a bunch of photos here, comparing a HMG flat to a Prexis Gen I: http://www.forgottenweapons.com/cetme-l-flats-hmg-vs-prexis/

 

[wbw2123]

If you decide to offload that L kit let me know, I might be a buyer.

I'm always behind the curve on these things; always hear stories of how cheap things used to be.

I'll make sure to keep you in mind. I've got them stashed right now for a remodel, so it'll be a little before I get them dug back out.

 

[ericoak]

FWIW, my understanding is that legally, bending the flat into shape is what makes it into a gun. Once you get to welding, it's already legally a gun.



It really was a pretty straightforward process. We had a slight bit of filing (really just a tiny bit) to fix alignment on the rear weldment, which HMG said was being fixed in their commercial run of flats. Everything else just fit and worked, as you see in the video.



I posted a bunch of photos here, comparing a HMG flat to a Prexis Gen I: http://www.forgottenweapons.com/cetme-l-flats-hmg-vs-prexis/

Welcome to the forum Ian! Group of us on here have a bunch of kits and ordered flats/parts from HMG. Trying to figure out if HMG barrels are worth double the price of the Apex barrels. We should have a nice mix of Ls, LCs, and LVs.

I still get a good laugh to myself "what do you think of when you hear a gun is a called a lady's home companion. Probably not a 8LB .45-70 revolver."

 

[ericoak]

I live like 15mins from HMG, need to figure out how to get some trigger time on that postir Cetme L.

 

[IanFW]

Thanks! I stumbled on the thread and figured I might be able to help with the build. It's nice to see some folks taking on the project.

I can't comment on the barrels, though, because I simply don't know what the difference is between them. The barrel I used (and Karl's too) were supplied by HMG, and I had just assumed everyone selling them was getting them from the same provider.

One word of warning on the LC carbines - you will need to get much, much stronger firing pin springs. I am writing this up as a blog post right now, but apparently the bolt velocity on the LC is higher than the L/LV, and enough so that the guns will slamfire and dump entire mags at about 1300 RPM (until they run dry of catastrophically malf).

 

[IMBLITZVT]

Welcome to the forum Ian! ...."

Yes Ian, welcome! I have been on your FW emails and watched you videos for a long time. Even got one of mine shooting MG08/15s with a booster-bipod setup on there once. We have a pretty big MG club here in Baltimore but not a lot of "forgotten" weapons.

Yes I agreed with your assessment of the Gen I flats and held out hoping for better. Now we are getting some good flats from HMG. It was worth the wait.

Anyway glad to see you here! If you ever get out to Maryland, let me know so I can get you shooting a Full Auto BAR and you can do a video on it to counter that one you did on the semi BAR... which is the only video I think needs serious revision.

For the guys who don't know Ian, he does a seriously excellent daily email on Forgotten Weapons. Some of this stuff you will never ever see... blow forward Pistols, rare prototypes, rare guns from Bolt to MGs...etc. I suggested to Ericoak above and he loves it too. https://www.forgottenweapons.com/ I highly suggest it to anyone who likes odd guns or finds gun design interesting. Every Engineer should join for sure and I have been getting his emails for years and its the only daily email I get.