AR15 Optics decision/dilemma. Advise requested

[TwinTurbskis]

Maybe I should just buy another AR and red dot it. Then I can have a 300yd. gun and a 100yd and in gun. I do like the LWRC's.

This is the way

 

[rbird7282]

The Strikefire 2 is a 4 MOA dot.

I stand corrected. Still works fine at 200 yards on steel plates


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[gungate]

This is the way

If you don't have to think about how many ARs you own you don't have enough.

 

[RRomig]

I stand corrected. Still works fine at 200 yards on steel plates


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It’s all relative to plate size. I’ve shot at many plates a 4 moa dot would cover by too much of a margin to be proficient. But body mass shots no problem.

 

[erwos]

It’s all relative to plate size. I’ve shot at many plates a 4 moa dot would cover by too much of a margin to be proficient. But body mass shots no problem.

Target size is certainly an under-explored dimension of these conversations, both in terms of identification and reticle choice. Hitting an IPSC or big old gong at 200 is a lot different than a 6" circle.

 

[alucard0822]

Build the firearm around a purpose, barrel, furniture, caliber, and optic should all work well together for that purpose. LPVOs vary in many things, better scopes give you a wider eye box, daylight bright illumination, cleaner/flatter image and wider field of view. The biggest downside is weight/bulk. There is also the inherent issue when looking through a scope, the distance between the target and your eye appears at the front lens, while if shooting with both eyes open, your non-dominant eye sees the target from a distance a few inches further. The effect is less pronounced in good scopes and past 25 or so yards, this effect is not present on red dots and HWSs, which pretty much always have an advantage within that range shooting with both eyes open. Personally If i'm shooting primarily within 50 yards, with some targets out to 100, and rarely out to 200, a dot is fine., especially on lightweight and SBR builds. I like a LPVO when shots when I will shoot out to a couple hundred yards more frequently, and with a more stable firearm in more powerful calibers.

IMO the PST2 is probably the best LPVO for the money, nice flat clean and bright image both makes it easier to shoot close with a large field of view and daylight bright illumination, and shoot out past where cheaper 6X scopes get difficult because of the clarity. Optics are one thing where I never regretted spending more than I initially planned to. For red dots, there is a balance between weight/durability and lens size/stuff surrounding it. I LOVE my AImpoint Pro, it's a rugged dot, can stay on for years, and has good clear glass, but the tube is really thick, and even though shooting with both eyes open minimizes the effect it still blocks some of the target. On the other end is the C-more railway, big round lens, very little bulk/weight and just a thin ring of plastic around the lens. It's the fastest sight I have used, and it's on my PCC competition guns, only downside is that the lens and LED is exposed, so dirt over the LED or dropping it will probably break it, so not "bet your life" reliable by any means.

 

[OMCHamlin]

.....Build the firearm around a purpose, barrel, furniture, caliber, and optic should all work well together for that purpose........

Bah! Build it around "what's cool" or "what's everybody else running?"...

 

[alucard0822]

Bah! Build it around "what's cool" or "what's everybody else running?"...

Those are indeed purposes

 

[OMCHamlin]

Those are indeed purposes

True enough, just don't invent made up scenarios to justify buying what's cool. Like another member said, start with a task. What tools best prepare you to complete that task?
If the task is; "make my rifle as cool as everybody else's in 2023", than so be it.

 

[smokey]

I like the reticle on the holosun. The 2 moa dot partnered with the 65moa circle allows you to use the ring for ranging/ different aiming points. For instance the bottom of the ring can be used to compensate both for height over bore at close ranges and drop at further distances.

If you don't like the ring, holding the down button turns it on or off. For the money, it's an extremely good option.

 

[outrider58]

I like the reticle on the holosun. The 2 moa dot partnered with the 65moa circle allows you to use the ring for ranging/ different aiming points. For instance the bottom of the ring can be used to compensate both for height over bore at close ranges and drop at further distances.

If you don't like the ring, holding the down button turns it on or off. For the money, it's an extremely good option. View attachment 404401

I love the rings on my eotechs, but hated it on my holosun. Way too much going on in that little window for me. They were smart in making them optional.

 

[alucard0822]

True enough, just don't invent made up scenarios to justify buying what's cool. Like another member said, start with a task. What tools best prepare you to complete that task?
If the task is; "make my rifle as cool as everybody else's in 2023", than so be it.

True, problem is when decisions start fighting each other, lightweight barrel and 20oz precision stock, short barrel in 300BO and a 4-16 optic etc. I always plan my builds out, and save a lot of headaches and parts swapping. Here are a couple recent builds(some are NFA and not MD legal) with different Optics that I feel works for them. Personally I primarily compete, and tend to prefer lightweight builds. Here are 4 out of my collection from close to far, with builds from a close range PCC out to a versatile 3 gun heavy build for stages from 6 feet to 600 yards. Added pics looking through the scopes to show relative field of view. The most restrictive is actually the EoTech, both scopes actually look about the same at 1X with the Steiner being just slightly brighter and flatter than the PST2, although both have a similar field of view and similarly thin "fuzzy black ring" around them when shooting 2 eyes open.

Lightweight PCC primarily for steel or close PCC matches, 0-25 yards primarily with a few shots out to 50 or 100. Weighs 4#12oz topped with a 4MOA Cmore dot. Built to be super fast and light, easy to compete with both eyes open. It's a short stroke blowback, and the front end weighs near nothing with a carbon fiber handguard and 5.25" barrel with a 16" sleeve. The great visibility of this dot along with great target awareness being very little is blocked by the open top reflex design allows it to hammer steel stages as fast as possible.

Defensive 6" 300BO compact build 0-200 yards with subs or supers. Comes in right at 5# 1oz, topped with an Eotech it's fast close in, but the fine center dot allows shots out to 200+ yards with supers. Partially tucks a can, has a nice fat handguard and PDW stock to stow in the car or backpack. Nice thing is that Subs and supers hit in the same place at 50 yards(sighted in there), then supers start hitting higher. It's a reliable rifle and easy to handle in tight places, far more power than 9mm with expanding subs or supers. It was nice to have in addition to my pistol traveling through Philly during the Riots. PA allows SBR's to be carried with a LTCF, but some crazy hunting regs cause 16"+ rifles to actually be more restricted for carry/transport.

Lightweight 16" 5.56/.223 3 gun competition build 6# 2oz, the goal here was to get the lightest, fastest 3 gun tac ops class rifle I could get without going over 5# or over $2K before optics. It had to be reliable, had to be fast, had to be accurate out to 300 yards on slow stages or really fast at close targets on hose stages. The giant brake, lightweight internals and overall light weight make it feel like a really really loud 22 with very little recoil. It achieved my goals, and is one of my favorite rifles. V seven ultralight receivers, Faxon gunner barrel, lightweight competition internals, relatively compact and light Steiner Px4i scope. The scope compliments this well, daylight bright, and only being a 1-4 it's a bit cleaner and brighter at 1X than all but the most expensive 1-6/8/10 models, but lighter and cheaper.

Lightweight 16" 7.62/308 3 gun competition build, 9#8oz 25-600 yards. Like it's tac ops little brother, this was built to compete in 3 gun, but in the heavy division. It also pulls double duty as a fun gun at the range for targets and a suppressor host. The initial 7.5lb weight before optics is about as light as an AR308 can get without sacrificing much or adding tremendous cost. It has full mass internals, and is very reliable, but tuned well with a big brake to have very light recoil and little sight movement. It's a very accurate rifle and pretty small/light for a 308, but friendly enough that my 11yo can shoot it. Topped with the same PST2 1-6 the OP has, but in a Larue mount it's rugged, and about as fast at close range as a 308 can be. I built it for Peacmaker's 3 gun course that goes out to 600 yards, but so far only have had it out to 400 yards on 12" plates at that particular match, which it handled no problem. Of course it's not a precision build, but does group match ammo well, and has helped me do well in a couple matches.

 

[OMCHamlin]

True, problem is when decisions start fighting each other, lightweight barrel and 20oz precision stock, short barrel in 300BO and a 4-16 optic etc. I always plan my builds out, and save a lot of headaches and parts swapping. Here are a couple recent builds(some are NFA and not MD legal) with different Optics that I feel works for them. Personally I primarily compete, and tend to prefer lightweight builds. Here are 4 out of my collection from close to far, with builds from a close range PCC out to a versatile 3 gun heavy build for stages from 6 feet to 600 yards.

Lightweight PCC primarily for steel or close PCC matches, 0-25 yards primarily with a few shots out to 50 or 100. Weighs 4#12oz topped with a 4MOA Cmore dot. Built to be super fast and light, easy to compete with both eyes open. It's a short stroke blowback, and the front end weighs near nothing with a carbon fiber handguard and 5.25" barrel with a 16" sleeve. The great visibility of this dot along with great target awareness being very little is blocked by the open top reflex design allows it to hammer steel stages as fast as possible.

Defensive 6" 300BO compact build 0-200 yards with subs or supers. Comes in right at 5# 1oz, topped with an Eotech it's fast close in, but the fine center dot allows shots out to 200+ yards with supers. Partially tucks a can, has a nice fat handguard and PDW stock to stow in the car or backpack. Nice thing is that Subs and supers hit in the same place at 50 yards(sighted in there), then supers start hitting higher. It's a reliable rifle and easy to handle in tight places, far more power than 9mm with expanding subs or supers. It was nice to have in addition to my pistol traveling through Philly during the Riots. PA allows SBR's to be carried with a LTCF, but some crazy hunting regs cause 16"+ rifles to actually be more restricted for carry/transport.

Lightweight 16" 5.56/.223 3 gun competition build 6# 2oz, the goal here was to get the lightest, fastest 3 gun tac ops class rifle I could get without going over 5# or over $2K before optics. It had to be reliable, had to be fast, had to be accurate out to 300 yards on slow stages or really fast at close targets on hose stages. The giant brake, lightweight internals and overall light weight make it feel like a really really loud 22 with very little recoil. It achieved my goals, and is one of my favorite rifles. V seven ultralight receivers, Faxon gunner barrel, lightweight competition internals, relatively compact and light Steiner Px4i scope. The scope compliments this well, daylight bright, and only being a 1-4 it's a bit cleaner and brighter at 1X than all but the most expensive 1-6/8/10 models, but lighter and cheaper.

Lightweight 16" 7.62/308 3 gun competition build, 9#8oz 25-600 yards. Like it's tac ops little brother, this was built to compete in 3 gun, but in the heavy division. It also pulls double duty as a fun gun at the range for targets and a suppressor host. The initial 7.5lb weight before optics is about as light as an AR308 can get without sacrificing much or adding tremendous cost. It has full mass internals, and is very reliable, but tuned well with a big brake to have very light recoil and little sight movement. It's a very accurate rifle and pretty small/light for a 308, but friendly enough that my 11yo can shoot it. Topped with the same PST2 1-6 the OP has, but in a Larue mount it's rugged, and about as fast at close range as a 308 can be. I built it for Peacmaker's 3 gun course that goes out to 600 yards, but so far only have had it out to 400 yards on 12" plates at that particular match, which it handled no problem. Of course it's not a precision build, but does group match ammo well, and has helped me do well in a couple matches.

View attachment 404431

Nice! Seems very well thought out. Have you chronoed that short barreled 300?
I just am decommissioning my 3 gun rifle, I don’t see too many of those matches anymore. I envy your ability to make a light weight build, mine always turn out heavy for purpose. I recently picked up a 1/8 Wylde chamber 16” pencil barrel and am going to start to think about a light weight plinker “on the cheap”. I have a basic idea, and a handful of parts trending towards light, but this will be a budget build.

 

[alucard0822]

Nice! Seems very well thought out. Have you chronoed that short barreled 300?
I just am decommissioning my 3 gun rifle, I don’t see too many of those matches anymore. I envy your ability to make a light weight build, mine always turn out heavy for purpose. I recently picked up a 1/8 Wylde chamber 16” pencil barrel and am going to start to think about a light weight plinker “on the cheap”. I have a basic idea, and a handful of parts trending towards light, but this will be a budget build.

It is usually about 1800-1900FPS with 110gr-125gr supers, about 950FPS with my 208gr and 220gr subs. My 9" usually adds 200-300 to supers and 100 to subs. Of course priority #1 is ALWAYS to look cool, that is much easier than being cool. My earlier 3 gun builds were heavier, I still use my 18" SPR that was just under 9# unloaded, more accurate, and more stable than my 16" lightweight, but shaving almost 3lbs primarily from the front end makes the lightweight so much faster on hose stages, it usually can make up the slower times on longer stages.