Boats
Broken Member
I will say that with an LVPO with a true 1x and illumination on, they can be just as fast as a red dot with a little practice and shooting with both eyes open.
AR15 Optics decision/dilemma. Advise requested
- Thread starter Baldheaded
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smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,543
I've got a couple 1-6 strike eagles on builds and a couple red dots. I put a holosun 503cu on my 14.5" CHF lightweight build. My 16" blackout with a 1-6 strike eagle and that 14.5" with a 503cu have given me some good input on the differences between them. In general, I like the LPVO for everything except dedicated inside-the-home stuff.
LPVOs shouldn't be much slower on most close-in targets if firing from a relatively common firing position where you can ensure a decent cheekweld. So standard prone, sitting, kneeling, standing... you should be able to be about as fast with a LPVO on 1x as you are with a red-dot. The time lost is measured in fractions of a second, which comes before the first shot breaks, as you settle in to your cheekweld. The advantages are pretty huge for a LPVO for most shooting.
LPVOs enable you to obviously dial up magnification and go up to 6x for precision, ranging things with the reticle, and general target identification. If shooting 100+ yards, the 6x option means I can see exactly what I'm shooting at. I can also generally see the impacts for any adjustments I need to make. The reticle itself has ranging features built in and ballistic solutions for wind/leading a moving target and drop. If shooting competition, at the range, or at 50+yard distances at living things, the LPVO is the clear winner due to the better info you get as a shooter.
Red dots are better for one big reason... they don't care about eye relief. If you need to shoot from unconventional positions, or want to break the first shot before you have a great cheekweld, red dots make life easier. So shooting under a car, you'll be able to pick up the dot easier than the reticle of a lpvo. Aside from that though, you're relying on your naked eye for target identification, ranging, and anything beyond 50 yards. If you've got the loot to dick with nightvision, red dots are also better for that, provided you throw them in a tall enough mount for that to work.
So again, for my general purpose rifles, they have lpvos. My two ARs set up specifically to be small and used inside a home/building have red dots... although at those distances you realllllllllllly probably don't need any sighting system and rely more on just point shooting.
I generally don't like the magnifier/red dot combo because it's not much faster than cranking the lever one way or another and now you've got 4 panes of glass to keep clean instead of 2. Magnifier/red dot setups are also often more expensive than just tossing a LPVO on there.
LPVOs shouldn't be much slower on most close-in targets if firing from a relatively common firing position where you can ensure a decent cheekweld. So standard prone, sitting, kneeling, standing... you should be able to be about as fast with a LPVO on 1x as you are with a red-dot. The time lost is measured in fractions of a second, which comes before the first shot breaks, as you settle in to your cheekweld. The advantages are pretty huge for a LPVO for most shooting.
LPVOs enable you to obviously dial up magnification and go up to 6x for precision, ranging things with the reticle, and general target identification. If shooting 100+ yards, the 6x option means I can see exactly what I'm shooting at. I can also generally see the impacts for any adjustments I need to make. The reticle itself has ranging features built in and ballistic solutions for wind/leading a moving target and drop. If shooting competition, at the range, or at 50+yard distances at living things, the LPVO is the clear winner due to the better info you get as a shooter.
Red dots are better for one big reason... they don't care about eye relief. If you need to shoot from unconventional positions, or want to break the first shot before you have a great cheekweld, red dots make life easier. So shooting under a car, you'll be able to pick up the dot easier than the reticle of a lpvo. Aside from that though, you're relying on your naked eye for target identification, ranging, and anything beyond 50 yards. If you've got the loot to dick with nightvision, red dots are also better for that, provided you throw them in a tall enough mount for that to work.
So again, for my general purpose rifles, they have lpvos. My two ARs set up specifically to be small and used inside a home/building have red dots... although at those distances you realllllllllllly probably don't need any sighting system and rely more on just point shooting.
I generally don't like the magnifier/red dot combo because it's not much faster than cranking the lever one way or another and now you've got 4 panes of glass to keep clean instead of 2. Magnifier/red dot setups are also often more expensive than just tossing a LPVO on there.
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Silverlode
Ultimate Member
I do really like the one ACOG I have but the Bindon concept just never really worked for me at near distances. I assumed this was pretty common as they starting mounting RMRs on top of them, which I really hate. I have one on a 45 degree mount which I prefer.
gungate
NRA Patron Member
I have the below Vortex StrikeFire red dot (red or green). Never really thought about using it beyond maybe 30 yards or so. Mostly because I can't see that far and it is 1x only. I need to see how far it will go I didn't realize these are accurate much further out. I need to get a prescription that is my far vision only because I have a lot of issues with my progressive 3 zone prescription and rely almost entirely on the scope's focus and magnification.
redsandman6
Active Member
you have to decide for yourself. i would try each system out and develop what works best for you. every system has their pros and cons. there is no one size fits all.
i have a romeo5 on one of my setups and it is about $120ish. it would be something you could get to try out. its an ok optic.
i haven't run an acog so i cant comment on that optic.
i have a romeo5 on one of my setups and it is about $120ish. it would be something you could get to try out. its an ok optic.
i haven't run an acog so i cant comment on that optic.
- Jul 29, 2014
- 50,094
I am firmly in the RDS or LPVO. I am not a big fan of FTS magnifiers with RDS. Too many moving parts. I will admit(and why I like them) that LPVOs slow you down a bit, but I don't see that as a bad thing. That tends to force me to take more well aimed shots. I don't see myself putting rounds down range as I scurry for cover. That's the job for me mates.
Trepang
Ultimate Member
I have a Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6X LPVO on a .308 BAR....love it.
An awesome piece of hog killing equipment.
And if I miss on the first shot, I have 19 more chances...lol
An awesome piece of hog killing equipment.
And if I miss on the first shot, I have 19 more chances...lol
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I think that's the reality of it for most people is that speed of acquisition really isn't that important, and I think that's why I like LPVOs - it's almost a reflex sight, but has the capability of magnification, all in one package. Even if it is a little slower. I know that the tacti-cool guys are always gonna want to be like the guy who actually posted this little snippet here on the board:
"The speed at which I moved was impressive. The rifle came off its rack, to my shoulder, I cleared the corner and it was leveled on the door, my finger on the bolt release. No further activity and after about 20 seconds at the ready, I approached the door at the low ready..."
THAT guy is going to "think" he needs to be lightning fast (he doesn't) and will go to great lengths to outfit his AR with just the right optic for it.
I've run my MPX with HS510C at 150yds at the ACM match. No magnifier, just some chrono'd ammo, a hold, and a prayer. Circle dots come in handy for that since you have some relative position for the hold (provided you use a ballistic calculator). Probably 95% of my shooting, a reflex sight could easily get it done.
Personally, I think the Vortex Razor Gen3 is the best 0-600 solution out there. I can do some reasonable work with a Romeo4S and a 4x magnifier, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought I was going much past 400 or so with it. Plus side to reflex+mag setups is that you don't suffer quite as much when shooting from weird positions where a solid cheek weld behind the rifle isn't as attainable.
Ultimately, even if you're capable of using your reflex sight at 200-300 (which isn't that hard), it's more of a problem of just seeing your target at a certain point. You can't shoot what you can't see, and someone in any kind of concealment at longer distances is going to be very difficult to pick out with the naked eye. Ditto if we're talking partial cover and the like. Shooting a white-painted C-zone target at 200 is a lot different than a dark target in the bushes at 200.
The night vision part of the equation is also worth considering. If you're using NV, you're basically stuck with a reflex sight. Without LPVO being an option, that magnifier to give you a little extra visual distance during the daytime doesn't seem like such a bad trade-off.
Personally, I think the Vortex Razor Gen3 is the best 0-600 solution out there. I can do some reasonable work with a Romeo4S and a 4x magnifier, but I'd be kidding myself if I thought I was going much past 400 or so with it. Plus side to reflex+mag setups is that you don't suffer quite as much when shooting from weird positions where a solid cheek weld behind the rifle isn't as attainable.
Ultimately, even if you're capable of using your reflex sight at 200-300 (which isn't that hard), it's more of a problem of just seeing your target at a certain point. You can't shoot what you can't see, and someone in any kind of concealment at longer distances is going to be very difficult to pick out with the naked eye. Ditto if we're talking partial cover and the like. Shooting a white-painted C-zone target at 200 is a lot different than a dark target in the bushes at 200.
The night vision part of the equation is also worth considering. If you're using NV, you're basically stuck with a reflex sight. Without LPVO being an option, that magnifier to give you a little extra visual distance during the daytime doesn't seem like such a bad trade-off.
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,311
Iron Sights
Opps , did I type that out loud ? Let me crawl under my rock now .
My Stamp Gun currently wearing an optic?
Fixed 2.5X
Opps , did I type that out loud ? Let me crawl under my other rock now .
* I didn't prefer an optic on a stamp gun on purpose . The FSB was canted just enough to not be able to zero irons .
Opps , did I type that out loud ? Let me crawl under my rock now .
My Stamp Gun currently wearing an optic?
Fixed 2.5X
Opps , did I type that out loud ? Let me crawl under my other rock now .
* I didn't prefer an optic on a stamp gun on purpose . The FSB was canted just enough to not be able to zero irons .
Baldheaded
Ultimate Member
I do have a Romeo5 on my Ruger PC9 that I can take off and try in place of my LPVO for a while. If I really like it then I can leave it on. If I don't, then I can just go back to the LPVO.
I used to have a Vortex Strikefire on my 3-gun AR and had no problems with the max distance targets which were about 210 yards.
Now it has a Vortex 1-8x scope on it because I shot a match in WV with targets out to 450 yards so a red dot won’t cut it then.
Also depends on the size of the dot, I think the Strikefire is 6 MOA.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Boats
Broken Member
I hated the red dot on top of the ACOG until a buddy of mine taught me how to use it right.
Most people think that you're supposed to move your cheek weld or lower the rifle to use the red dot. This is slow and causes instability in the rifle.
Rotating the rifle 45deg until the red dot rests in front of your non-dominant eye is faster, maintains cheek weld and better control of the rifle.
Give it a shot (pun intended)
Ah, we have the same sickness
That works.The comments here have covered the bases pretty well, but I'll add one more thing. I think a 2-7X scope is a reasonable alternative to an LPVO. Something like a Vortex Diamondback on a Vortex cantilever mount.
That is a damn nice rig right there!
Trepang
Ultimate Member
Thanks. I have been very happy with it.
That’s a big dot for a rifle.
The Strikefire 2 is a 4 MOA dot.
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