2nd Court of Appeals rules SWAT team cannot claim immunity

[teratos]

I don't doubt that he is legitimately scarred from what happened. But PTSD, like back pain or whiplash, is one of those nebulous afflictions that is hard to quantify or award a settlement against.

This ruling cuts both ways. The state should be held accountable for excessive use of force, at the same time this opens the door to frivolous lawsuits. Calling this particular lawsuit frivolous was jumping the gun on my part. But there WILL be such lawsuits in the future, at the taxpayer's expense.

Are you f'ing kidding me? You are sitting at your house with a buddy, watching the game, having a Bud. Suddenly a SWAT team comes in and shoots your buddy. They throw stun grenades, jump on you, mash your face into the floor, cuff you, and hit you in the head with a gun. People aren't going to be scarred by that? Your house is supposed to be a safe place, and the police are supposed to be there to protect you. All of those ideas are now turned upside down. Have you dealt much with PTSD? Clearly you haven't. I see cops who have PTSD from clean shoots.

 

[Objee]

Well it sort of happened in the case below. Mind you that the guy may have had the deck stacked against him: Black guy vs. Cop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye

It also happened in VA last year (citizen takes a shot at cops entering the wrong house) and the citizen was found not guilty.

Man charged for shooting when cops went to wrong house

Man Found Not Guilty For Firing Warning Shot at Police Mistakenly Enering His Home

 

[rob-cubed]

Have you dealt much with PTSD? Clearly you haven't. I see cops who have PTSD from clean shoots.

Very little. If this is a million-dollar issue he should be compensated for, I believe you.

I just worry that like the medical field badly needs tort reform, civil lawsuits against the police could also get out of hand.

 

[pbharvey]

City of Laurel had a bad SWAT raid years ago.
More recently there was a home invasion by masked men dressed all in black.

I wouldn't want to have to make the split second decision at 2 in the morning deciding if these people are trying to kill my family or arrest me, especially since I have no reason to believe a SWAT team would be serving me a warrant.

 

[teratos]

City of Laurel had a bad SWAT raid years ago.
More recently there was a home invation by masked men dressed all in black.

I wouldn't want to have to make the split second decision at 2 in the morning deciding if these people are trying to kill my family or arrest me, especially since I have no reason to believe a SWAT team would be serving me a warrant.

In all likelihood, you will end up dead once the shooting starts. I'm gonna bet no LEO wants to be on a team that raids the wrong house and kills a family man in the middle of the night.

 

[pbharvey]

By the way, one year ago today a Baltimore County officer died serving a warrant.
http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/News/PoliceNews/iWatch/BaltimoreeCountyOfficersHonorFallenHero?hootPostID=bb3258699e0350cdb54f94be1e889e71

 

[abean4187]

I don't doubt that he is legitimately scarred from what happened. But PTSD, like back pain or whiplash, is one of those nebulous afflictions that is hard to quantify or award a settlement against.

This ruling cuts both ways. The state should be held accountable for excessive use of force, at the same time this opens the door to frivolous lawsuits. Calling this particular lawsuit frivolous was jumping the gun on my part. But there WILL be such lawsuits in the future, at the taxpayer's expense.

I don’t see this as a problem. The police should absolutely be scared to use force and only use it when absolutely necessary. Not to mention that our entire war on drug flat out kills innocent people. The entire system is awful and since our police and politicians don’t give a crap about protecting our rights we will have to use the court systems to do it.

 

[daNattyFatty]

By the way, one year ago today a Baltimore County officer died serving a warrant.
http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Ne...o?hootPostID=bb3258699e0350cdb54f94be1e889e71

Trying to get the suspect in a recent, gang related shooting.....

 

[Inigoes]

City of Laurel had a bad SWAT raid years ago.
More recently there was a home invation by masked men dressed all in black.

I wouldn't want to have to make the split second decision at 2 in the morning deciding if these people are trying to kill my family or arrest me, especially since I have no reason to believe a SWAT team would be serving me a warrant.

In all likelihood, you will end up dead once the shooting starts. I'm gonna bet no LEO wants to be on a team that raids the wrong house and kills a family man in the middle of the night.

Yep,

The default "start shooting" when someone breaks in the wee hours of the night, because you are in the kill zone either way (if you did nothing wrong).

 

[fabsroman]

In all likelihood, you will end up dead once the shooting starts. I'm gonna bet no LEO wants to be on a team that raids the wrong house and kills a family man in the middle of the night.

I bet you are right, so that is why it is so damn important that officers actually do their investigation properly. After the fact, an oops is catastrophic. Kind of like an attorney screwing up on a large case or a death penalty case, a brain surgeon or heart surgeon screwing up, etc. I don't care took much if the garbage man has an oops, but there are some professions where an oops has huge ramifications for people.

Still waiting to see how the flash bang grenade under a crib matter goes down in Atlanta, I believe it was, where a toddler was extremely burned. From the sounds of it, the officers did not do their homework on that one. They had no clue that there were children in the house, and when they executed the sweep for the small time drug dealer, he wasn't even in the house. If he wasn't in the house, why the heck couldn't they have just grabbed him while he was returning to the house? Seems as though all too often, the answer is SWAT, instead of spending time on a stakeout observing what the heck is going on prior to the "invasion".

Did you happen to see the Maryland Governor SWAT reports that I posted in a thread in the Water Cooler? The trend is increasing in Maryland. Thing is, the statute that required the local police departments to report these numbers to the Governor, Public Safety section 3-507, expired in June and it was not renewed by the General Assembly.

I am fine with police catching the bad guys. Thing is, our Legislatures makes more and more people bad guys. Just stop and think about what SB281 did, and what it could have done. If a person that lawfully owns assault weapons moves here, and does not know that he has to register his firearms within 90 days of moving here, he becomes a criminal. The law as originally written, would have made a lot of Marylanders criminals for continuing to own a firearm without registering it.

At least they have gone a little in the other direction, making the possession of a small amount of pot a civil offense instead of a criminal one. You really have to wonder what life would be like in America if drugs were just legalized, we stopped filling prisons with drug related offenders, and the gangs lost a large amount of their cash flow.

A Cop's Experience Tells Him the Drug War is Doing More Harm Than Good:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...tion-heroin/GRq3TO2RwX3IWDYTjY8UPO/story.html

 

[Dirichlet]

Still waiting to see how the flash bang grenade INTO a crib matter goes down in Atlanta, I believe it was, where a toddler was extremely burned. From the sounds of it, the officers did not do their homework on that one. They had no clue that there were children in the house, and when they executed the sweep for the small time drug dealer, he wasn't even in the house. If he wasn't in the house, why the heck couldn't they have just grabbed him while he was returning to the house? Seems as though all too often, the answer is SWAT, instead of spending time on a stakeout observing what the heck is going on prior to the "invasion".

FIFY

"...county officials have refused to pay the medical bills incurred by the family after their employees maimed the child..."

http://theantimedia.org/cops-maim-baby-with-grenade-blast-county-refuses-to-pay-medical-bills/

"...The police are investigating themselves in the case."

Boy, wouldn't it be nice if we could investigate ourselves for any accused wrongdoing... Nope.. I didn't do anything wrong... I'm free to go,,,
What I hate, too, is that if a lawsuit is successful it comes at taxpayer expense. The money should come directly from the bank accounts, assets, and future earnings of the police involved.

 

[Hit and Run]

....and if you are going in with guns blazing, you better be 100% correct 100% of the time. There is no room for error.

Better have real immediate threat as well that warrants deadly force...

 

[Ragnar]

I don’t see this as a problem. The police should absolutely be scared to use force and only use it when absolutely necessary. Not to mention that our entire war on drug flat out kills innocent people. The entire system is awful and since our police and politicians don’t give a crap about protecting our rights we will have to use the court systems to do it.

This is the crux of the problem. We complain about welfare and Medicaid and Obamacare, but the "war on drugs" is the most failed public policy of our lifetimes. For decades we have incurred hundreds of billions of dollars of expense on enforcement and incarceration and lost countless lives, and it's easier today than ever to buy illegal drugs if you want them. Yet suggesting that we ease up on drug laws is like a third rail in politics. So depressing.

We wouldn't need as many SWAT teams and no-knock warrants, and LE wouldn't kill as many innocent citizens, if we figure a different and better way to deal with recreational drugs.

 

[K.C.Dean]

....and if you are going in with guns blazing, you better be 100% correct 100% of the time. There is no room for error.

This is what we expect from the banks and our money. We should also expect the same when it comes to our constitutional rights and our lives.

 

[fleaman64]

Good. Maybe some of these jack booted thugs and their wise overloads will think twice when they are held personally responsible for their actions. Forget settlement which ends up being on the backs of the taxpayers. Put these power hungry, trigger happy goons and their bosses in the slammer!

 

[fleaman64]

OT

This is what we expect from the banks and our money. We should also expect the same when it comes to our constitutional rights and our lives.

Hate to break it to you. When you put money in the bank, it ain't yours anymore. You are considered an unsecured creditor. So, if the bank makes a bad bet, they can use your deposits to cover their losses.

It's called a "bail in". Check your depositors agreement.

 

[teratos]

This is what we expect from the banks and our money. We should also expect the same when it comes to our constitutional rights and our lives.

It's what is expected of me on my job.

 

[beretta_maven]

I think PTSD is fair in this instance. It is quite possible the friend pisses himself every time he sees a cop. Not frivolous, IMO.

I absolutely agree.

 

[Afrikeber]

I've met the SWAT team in MoCo at an awards ceremony in VA......your not surviving

Being the realistic person that I am. I would assume as much. Not that I would intentionally even entertain the idea....envy:

 

[Afrikeber]

Well it sort of happened in the case below. Mind you that the guy may have had the deck stacked against him: Black guy vs. Cop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye

Best action is not to move, let the cop/swat do their thing and then, if the entry was illegal or the warrant issued upon illegal evidence, you can sue the living hell out of the City/County/State.

....Yup......I could use the spare cash......