.260 Remington (bolt-action), tips/advice?

[E.Shell]

No need to stumble....

September 2014:

FTFY. The IMR version {of H-4350} is just a little too fast and will limit velocities to not much more than a .308, which is a waste of barrel life. The H version will typically deliver another 150-200 fps with everything else the same.

I have a couple .260s and have had excellent results with Norma 130s and Lapua 139s using H-4350 and CCI-BR2s.

Today:

Think I stumbled into my most stable load with H4350, it isn't necessarily the MOST accurate load - but it seems to be the most stable so far. I'll take stability any day of the week. .....

As would I, when discussing long range precision.

The whole object of loading for long range is to find a stable load that provides adequate precision. You should be able to find a consistent and precise load with a little more experimenting. Using H-4350, was able to get a 130 at 2,950 +/- 5 fps with four consecutive test groups between .32 and .19 moa.

 

[BradMacc82]

I'll need to get my velocities, and ideally an idea of how they do at DSC (100 to 500 yards) - but I'm definitely liking what I'm getting with H4350 so far. Ed, I have no reason to doubt you - a little more tuning, and I think I'll have found my sweet spot.

My CCI 200 and CCI #34 batches shot nearly picture perfect identical. The Win LRP's shot (roughly) half a mil high, and the Fed GM210M's shot (roughly) half a mil low.

Groups were more of a cloverleaf. And I can say there's more work for me to do - fatigue is definitely an issue for me, I guess the rifle isn't quite set-up perfect for me yet.

If possible, I'd like to try to get down there for a day (at least) to get some outside input.

 

[fnfalsar48]

I'd like to try to get down there for a day (at least) to get some outside input.

Brad, Hopefully you will be able to take a couple days off to go take a class with Ed, since you have a new job.

 

[BradMacc82]

Brad, Hopefully you will be able to take a couple days off to go take a class with Ed, since you have a new job.

Well that's always good news to hear!!


And Mdeng showed me your target via text, that's fine shooting there. I have a ways to go before I can replicate that string.

 

[fnfalsar48]

You'll have to ask your boss about that time off. I'm only your boss's boss

 

[BradMacc82]

We'll cross that bridge when the time comes, it'd be bad form to start a new job and shortly after ask for time off.

So Ed, that means you have at least 60 days to prepare yourself, hopefully I won't have you pulling your hair out.

 

[Uncle Duke]

BradMacc82, have you tried any of the Berger bullets in that rifle? I've not shot them myself, and I'm aware that the VLD's by design are a whole other animal when it comes to seating depth etc. Curious to hear thoughts on these if you've tried any.

 

[BradMacc82]

BradMacc82, have you tried any of the Berger bullets in that rifle? I've not shot them myself, and I'm aware that the VLD's by design are a whole other animal when it comes to seating depth etc. Curious to hear thoughts on these if you've tried any.

Haven't tried the Berger's yet, simply because they're a bit pricey and I'd been on a tight budget. I've heard a lot of people have great results with them, I just haven't had the spare funds to splurge on them yet.

I can say the Nosler 142gr ABLR tend to compress the powder ever so slightly at 2.815", using a .308win case and 43.1gr of H4350. Haven't seen any bullet spring-back, so it's not compressing the charge much - but just enough to where you can't hear the powder moving around in the case. They're LOONNNGGG pills.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Haven't tried the Berger's yet, simply because they're a bit pricey and I'd been on a tight budget. I've heard a lot of people have great results with them, I just haven't had the spare funds to splurge on them yet.

I can say the Nosler 142gr ABLR tend to compress the powder ever so slightly at 2.815", using a .308win case and 43.1gr of H4350. Haven't seen any bullet spring-back, so it's not compressing the charge much - but just enough to where you can't hear the powder moving around in the case. They're LOONNNGGG pills.

The Bergers are reputed to be a tough bullet to get right. But when they're right, they can be really right. Then again, E. Shell mentions .19 and .32. Not sure how much more right...right gets!

 

[BradMacc82]

The Bergers are reputed to be a tough bullet to get right. But when they're right, they can be really right. Then again, E. Shell mentions .19 and .32. Not sure how much more right...right gets!

That's partly why I haven't tried them, I've heard they can be sensitive to seated depth - and to be honest, I make things difficult enough on my own at times, I don't need the bullets to help out there.

Well Ed is definitely a better shot than I. I've had decent groups with my rifle so far, but not quite .19 and .32 good yet.

Still have a ways to go, but that's the end goal for me. To be able to do that consistently, at range.

 

[Uncle Duke]

That's partly why I haven't tried them, I've heard they can be sensitive to seated depth - and to be honest, I make things difficult enough on my own at times, I don't need the bullets to help out there.

Well Ed is definitely a better shot than I. I've had decent groups with my rifle so far, but not quite .19 and .32 good yet.

Still have a ways to go, but that's the end goal for me. To be able to do that consistently, at range.

True enough. There's the arrows, and then there's the Indian.

Interesting on the H4350 through. At 5fps he's got that variable out of the equation huh?

Good luck with your efforts. Great thread!

 

[BradMacc82]

Most days, it's the Indian - and he can't blame it on the fire-water either.

Yeah, with sd/es's in the single digits, that's one factor that's not much of a factor anymore. But that is the goal.

 

[J.T]

I'm considering getting into the 260/6.5mm game. I don't have the time or space to reload at the present time. Is the 6.5cm my best bet due the "abundance" of factory match ammo?

Any input on differences, pros, cons between 260, 6.5cm, and 6.5x47? This would be a target/match type rifle. I don't hunt

 

[BradMacc82]

From my perspective, if reloading isn't an option and your set on getting into the 6.5mm arena. I'd say the Creedmoor is the leading option, simply because the factory ammo is available, and it's not entirely hateful from the prices I've seen.

Factory .260 ammo is available, but I have noticed more of the higher end match type rounds do tend to sell quickly, and be unavailable for stints of time. And 6.5x47 Lapua, while a nice round and great shooter, definitely won't do your wallet any favors if you're buying factory ammo only.

One thing that I have noticed, and this could just be how my specific rifle is, but even the cheaper Remington hunting ammo will do under an inch (and better) when the shooter does their part. Federal Fusion has surprised the hell out of me in .260, under 1/2 inch consistently - in my rifle.

 

[E.Shell]

I'm considering getting into the 260/6.5mm game. I don't have the time or space to reload at the present time. Is the 6.5cm my best bet due the "abundance" of factory match ammo?

In the 6.5 CM, Hornady makes match ammo in two bullet weights, Nosler one and Winchester one. The others I am aware of are hunting loads.

In the .260, Cor-Bon makes match ammo in two bullet weights, HSM (spit) one and Nosler one. There are many more hunting loads for the .260, but the 6.5 CM is advertised as a match cartridge and most rifles are not hunting rifles, so this follows logic.

Overall, not much difference in factory load availability. Scratch that factor.

We have tested (precision & velocity) the 6.5 CM Hornady loads but not the WW or Nosler. We have tested both .260 Cor-Bon offerings and also custom loaded ammo from Copper Creek in .260 and .243 (save your money and buy a shotgun).

The primary fault with ALL of these loads is the inconsistent velocities versus the range they are designed for. Close range (<300 yards) precision tends to be good, but all of them show standard deviations of over 10 fps, usually more. An extreme spread of 25 fps, as most of this "match" ammo delivers, is about a 10" tall group at 1,000 yards. This will not let you stay in even the 10 ring at 1k F-Class, let alone the 5" X ring, even if your rifle and marksmanship are perfect.

Any input on differences, pros, cons between 260, 6.5cm, and 6.5x47? This would be a target/match type rifle. I don't hunt

Buy the one you find most pleasing to say, or that your favorite rifle model is available in....there is really no other practical difference.

From behind the gun, you will not be able to tell, nor will the target.

Theoretically, there is a velocity difference among these, with the 6.5x47 being slowest, then the 6.5 CM, then the .260 rendering highest velocities. In practice, there is less difference between rounds than it is between rifles.

Barrel life, regardless of air conditioned laboratory theory, is much more dependent on rate of fire and cleaning methods than nuances in these three cartridge designs or their capacities.

Because the .260 has been around too long to be thrilling, many shooters are taken by the 6.5 CM, pointing out it's 'zero convergence' neck/shoulder geometry and efficient case design. The 6.5x47 Lapua exists because they didn't want to miss the mid-capacity 6.5 bandwagon. It has slightly less capacity than the other two, but again, a difference in rifles can negate this.

One of my firends/students is a precision riflesmith and just built a pair of .260s for he and his daughter. Except for barrel manufacturer, they are identical in every way, right down to the same reamer and identical headpace dimensions. With identical loads, there is a 100 fps difference between these two rifles.

I have also seen instances where the 6.5 CM delivered higher velocity than my .260 load with the same bullet, in spite of the .260 having a little more case capacity.

Bottom line, any/all are just fine and about the same. Any of the above cartridges are fun to shoot, ballistically efficient and shoot OK for factory ammo. If you like saying La-pu-ah, then that's obviously the best one.

FWIW, if you get serious about true long range accuracy, you will eventually have to handload if you expect to score well.

 

[J.T]

In the 6.5 CM, Hornady makes match ammo in two bullet weights, Nosler one and Winchester one. The others I am aware of are hunting loads.

In the .260, Cor-Bon makes match ammo in two bullet weights, HSM (spit) one and Nosler one. There are many more hunting loads for the .260, but the 6.5 CM is advertised as a match cartridge and most rifles are not hunting rifles, so this follows logic.

Overall, not much difference in factory load availability. Scratch that factor.

We have tested (precision & velocity) the 6.5 CM Hornady loads but not the WW or Nosler. We have tested both .260 Cor-Bon offerings and also custom loaded ammo from Copper Creek in .260 and .243 (save your money and buy a shotgun).

The primary fault with ALL of these loads is the inconsistent velocities versus the range they are designed for. Close range (<300 yards) precision tends to be good, but all of them show standard deviations of over 10 fps, usually more. An extreme spread of 25 fps, as most of this "match" ammo delivers, is about a 10" tall group at 1,000 yards. This will not let you stay in even the 10 ring at 1k F-Class, let alone the 5" X ring, even if your rifle and marksmanship are perfect.

Buy the one you find most pleasing to say, or that your favorite rifle model is available in....there is really no other practical difference.

From behind the gun, you will not be able to tell, nor will the target.

Theoretically, there is a velocity difference among these, with the 6.5x47 being slowest, then the 6.5 CM, then the .260 rendering highest velocities. In practice, there is less difference between rounds than it is between rifles.

Barrel life, regardless of air conditioned laboratory theory, is much more dependent on rate of fire and cleaning methods than nuances in these three cartridge designs or their capacities.

Because the .260 has been around too long to be thrilling, many shooters are taken by the 6.5 CM, pointing out it's 'zero convergence' neck/shoulder geometry and efficient case design. The 6.5x47 Lapua exists because they didn't want to miss the mid-capacity 6.5 bandwagon. It has slightly less capacity than the other two, but again, a difference in rifles can negate this.

One of my firends/students is a precision riflesmith and just built a pair of .260s for he and his daughter. Except for barrel manufacturer, they are identical in every way, right down to the same reamer and identical headpace dimensions. With identical loads, there is a 100 fps difference between these two rifles.

I have also seen instances where the 6.5 CM delivered higher velocity than my .260 load with the same bullet, in spite of the .260 having a little more case capacity.

Bottom line, any/all are just fine and about the same. Any of the above cartridges are fun to shoot, ballistically efficient and shoot OK for factory ammo. If you like saying La-pu-ah, then that's obviously the best one.

FWIW, if you get serious about true long range accuracy, you will eventually have to handload if you expect to score well.

Ed,
Thank you very much for the in depth reply. Sounds like I may need to step into the reloading arena to really make it worthwhile to spend the money on one of these sticks.

Out of curiosity does the 308 FGMM have the same SD and ES problems as the 260/6.5 match ammo you mentioned above?

EDIT.... Wouldn't the actual deviations be rifle specific? Or are the loads just very inconsistent?

 

[J.T]

From my perspective, if reloading isn't an option and your set on getting into the 6.5mm arena. I'd say the Creedmoor is the leading option, simply because the factory ammo is available, and it's not entirely hateful from the prices I've seen.

Factory .260 ammo is available, but I have noticed more of the higher end match type rounds do tend to sell quickly, and be unavailable for stints of time. And 6.5x47 Lapua, while a nice round and great shooter, definitely won't do your wallet any favors if you're buying factory ammo only.

One thing that I have noticed, and this could just be how my specific rifle is, but even the cheaper Remington hunting ammo will do under an inch (and better) when the shooter does their part. Federal Fusion has surprised the hell out of me in .260, under 1/2 inch consistently - in my rifle.

Thanks. I figured the CM was the way to go for me but after reading Ed's post I'm not so sure it's worth the cost of entry for a high end gun in that caliber without the reloading stuff to go with it.

 

[BradMacc82]

Thanks. I figured the CM was the way to go for me but after reading Ed's post I'm not so sure it's worth the cost of entry for a high end gun in that caliber without the reloading stuff to go with it.

Part of the enjoyment I've gotten out of the .260 is the fact that nearly every factory loaded ammo I've run thru it shoots very well out to 300 yards.

The Cor-Bon 123gr Scenars, Federal Fusion 120gr, Remington Core-lokt 140gr - have all done superbly in my rifle. Even better after Shilen re-cut my chamber.

 

[Broncolou]

Got mine out this evening after a long break . Tikka T3 with thunderbeast 30 p1
All loads were 123 nosler custom comps 2.828" 37grns varget over a wolf primer.

 

[Broncolou]

2/3 shot groups adjusting poi for the can