Long gun Carry

BenL said:

This is my concern, as well.

Think about it: You're looking out of your living room window, and some guy comes walking by carrying an AR, mag inserted. Are you going to call the police?

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Is he carrying it or is it slung? If he is carrying it, is he carrying it by the handguard / riser or pistol grip? I'm not calling the cops if he has one, I'm calling the cops if he is walking down my street with his hand on firecontrol.

Boxcab said:

Why do it?

To de-sensatize both the Police and civilians.

This would be a learning endeavour. The Police will need to get up to speed and the civilians will need to get up to speed. If nobody does it out of fear, then it is not a Right at all, but a loss of Rights.

Am I going to do it?

I'm not on board yet. I'm also not going to call 911, like some people on this board say they would, if I see someone exercising their right. I grew up in areas where people did openly carry pistols and rifles down the street, gun racks in every truck and a population that just accepted them as tools. Safest towns I ever lived in.

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BenL said:

This is my concern, as well.

Think about it: You're looking out of your living room window, and some guy comes walking by carrying an AR, mag inserted. Are you going to call the police?

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shawn said:

I personally wouldnt but most people in this state probably would.

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Dogabutila said:

Is he carrying it or is it slung? If he is carrying it, is he carrying it by the handguard / riser or pistol grip? I'm not calling the cops if he has one, I'm calling the cops if he is walking down my street with his hand on firecontrol.

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Perception becomes an issue as well. I you have a white guy and a gangsta looking fella walking down the street 5 minutes apart each carrying an AR, which one are you going to call the police on?

NY Transplant said:

Perception becomes an issue as well. I you have a white guy and a gangsta looking fella walking down the street 5 minutes apart each carrying an AR, which one are you going to call the police on?

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Neither.

I would love to walk thru Landover with my SBR AR slinged to my back ,the looks I would get from the locals . Then once PGPD showed up they would say to me Shawn what the hell are you doing ?! Or one better walk on the Maryland side of Eastern Ave on the DC line , all the Drug boys and hookers wouldn't know what to do .

watch out for local restrictions

It is true that the state's memorandum in Woollard states (on page 4) that the "Maryland Permit Statute" allows "anyone who can lawfully possess a long gun to wear and carry it, concealed or openly, anywhere the holder of a handgun carry permit could carry a handgun."

However, everyone should keep in mind that the state is talking here only about what is legal and what is not legal under certain STATE laws governing the carrying and transportation of firearms (which the memorandum refers to in shorthand as "the Maryland Permit Statute"). Do not forget that in many jurisdictions, there are also county or local ordinances that apply.

Maryland has a couple of state preemption laws dealing with firearms, but they have a number of exceptions for certain types of local laws -- so many of the local restrictions are enforceable.

In addition, in rural areas, there are STATE hunting-related restrictions that come into play in certain circumstances (even if you are not, in reality, hunting), and the state's memorandum does not discuss these at all. For example, it is a state hunting-law violation to carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle.

ThatIsAFact said:

It is true that the state's memorandum in Woollard states (on page 4) that the "Maryland Permit Statute" allows "anyone who can lawfully possess a long gun to wear and carry it, concealed or openly, anywhere the holder of a handgun carry permit could carry a handgun."

However, everyone should keep in mind that the state is talking here only about what is legal and what is not legal under certain STATE laws governing the carrying and transportation of firearms (which the memorandum refers to in shorthand as "the Maryland Permit Statute"). Do not forget that in many jurisdictions, there are also county or local ordinances that apply.

Maryland has a couple of state preemption laws dealing with firearms, but they have a number of exceptions for certain types of local laws -- so many of the local restrictions are enforceable.

In addition, in rural areas, there are STATE hunting-related restrictions that come into play in certain circumstances (even if you are not, in reality, hunting), and the state's memorandum does not discuss these at all. For example, it is a state hunting-law violation to carry a loaded long gun in a vehicle.

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The Court of Appeals of Maryland has found that uncodified Chapter 13, Section 6 of the Acts of 1972, which prohibits local regulation of the wearing, carrying, and transporting of handguns, preempted a county ordinance which attempted to regulate the sale of ammunition and the wearing, carrying or transporting of loaded handguns. Montgomery County v. Atlantic Guns, 489 A.2d 1114 (Md. 1985).


At least, Montgomery County has offered some good to the cause

nomo613 said:

i always thought this was the law, but then how come continental gave my brother in law grief about this? he walked in with an unloaded mossy 500 under his coat only to not freak out anyone who might see it outside. when he came in and pulled it from under his coat they yelled at him for concealed carry without a permit! they wouldnt let him leave the store untill he put it in a garbage bag. he told them they probably know the law better then him but he has gone to many ranges like this without any complaint. they also called carrying your gun from the back wall of the range to your booth carrying without permit. is the law more strict in a shooting range, or does the dude with the long hair have nothing better to complain about?

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The long hair private pyle guy has been covered a few times before if you dig around, he has some sort of complex.

We need Del. Smeigel or another friendly delegate to query the AG's Office to make this official so we have something in writing.

A copy of that letter then becomes our de facto carry permit for LGs.

We already have that letter from the AG's office, at least for unloaded rifle carry. Search this section of the forum.

The problem is not "can we legally do it?" It's stunningly obvious that it's legal. But my perception is that local LEOs are NOT aware that this is the case, and unless the state is going to educate them, we run into the possibility of some extremely serious confrontations. Your letter will probably not impress them as much as you think. While I want my right to bear arms preserved, I'd prefer to avoid people getting shot if we can avoid it.

Two words: Port Arthur.

Like it or not, that is the public perception of EBR's. As Boxcab pointed out, it would be a learning process for police- assuming citizens start carrying long guns en mass (which I doubt they would.)

Personally, I would prefer to CCW a pistol when I felt necessary. That being said, if it's made publicly known that long guns are legal to carry, I may have to get an AK underfold for my late night walks to the convenience store.

current preemption law

Inigoes said:

The Court of Appeals of Maryland has found that uncodified Chapter 13, Section 6 of the Acts of 1972, which prohibits local regulation of the wearing, carrying, and transporting of handguns, preempted a county ordinance which attempted to regulate the sale of ammunition and the wearing, carrying or transporting of loaded handguns. Montgomery County v. Atlantic Guns, 489 A.2d 1114 (Md. 1985). At least, Montgomery County has offered some good to the cause

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The preemption statute governing handguns and other so-called "regulated" weapons actually has fewer exceptions that the preemption law that applies to most long guns. The CURRENT Maryland preemption law that applies to most long guns is reproduced below. As you see, it still allows local governments to enforce a number of restrictions, especially in (b)(2)(iii).

§ 4-209. Regulation of weapons and ammunition.

(a) State preemption.- Except as otherwise provided in this section, the State preempts the right of a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district to regulate the purchase, sale, taxation, transfer, manufacture, repair, ownership, possession, and transportation of:

(1) a handgun, rifle, or shotgun; and

(2) ammunition for and components of a handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

(b) Exceptions.-

(1) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the purchase, sale, transfer, ownership, possession, and transportation of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section:

(i) with respect to minors;

(ii) with respect to law enforcement officials of the subdivision; and

(iii) except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly.

(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the teaching of or training in firearms safety, or other educational or sporting use of the items listed in subsection (a) of this section.

(3) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the transportation of an item listed in subsection (a) of this section by a person who is carrying a court order requiring the surrender of the item, if:

(i) the handgun, rifle, or shotgun is unloaded;

(ii) the person has notified the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station that the item is being transported in accordance with the court order; and

(iii) the person transports the item directly to the law enforcement unit, barracks, or station.

(c) Preexisting local laws.- To the extent that a local law does not create an inconsistency with this section or expand existing regulatory control, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may exercise its existing authority to amend any local law that existed on or before December 31, 1984.

(d) Discharge of firearms.-

(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2) of this subsection, in accordance with law, a county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may regulate the discharge of handguns, rifles, and shotguns.

(2) A county, municipal corporation, or special taxing district may not prohibit the discharge of firearms at established ranges.

ThatIsAFact said:

The preemption statute governing handguns and other so-called "regulated" weapons actually has fewer exceptions that the preemption law that applies to most long guns. The CURRENT Maryland preemption law that applies to most long guns is reproduced below. As you see, it still allows local governments to enforce a number of restrictions, especially in (b)(2)(iii).

§ 4-209. Regulation of weapons and ammunition.
...

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Which is basically the COMAR listings provided by the AG.

I know this has been basically covered in two threads but I'm still trying to understand the details.

So, as I understand it, according to this I can carry a long gun just as someone with a CCW would carry a handgun, as in loaded/concealed/in the car etc.

Currently MD states that a long gun transported in a vehicle must be kept unloaded. With this new ruling would it be safe to say said long gun can be left in the vehicle loaded?

I've pretty much decided I'm gonna throw some beater pistol grip shotguns in both cars either way. Now I just need to figure out if it's legit to leave shells in the tube. One of the original reasons I was leaning towards pump guns in the first place is that you can drop a shell in an empty gun and close the chamber in a fraction of a second (actually required in my weapons qual).

I apologize ahead of time for asking silly questions and venturing a little off topic

benton0311 said:

I know this has been basically covered in two threads but I'm still trying to understand the details.

So, as I understand it, according to this I can carry a long gun just as someone with a CCW would carry a handgun, as in loaded/concealed/in the car etc.

Currently MD states that a long gun transported in a vehicle must be kept unloaded. With this new ruling would it be safe to say said long gun can be left in the vehicle loaded?

I've pretty much decided I'm gonna throw some beater pistol grip shotguns in both cars either way. Now I just need to figure out if it's legit to leave shells in the tube. One of the original reasons I was leaning towards pump guns in the first place is that you can drop a shell in an empty gun and close the chamber in a fraction of a second (actually required in my weapons qual).

I apologize ahead of time for asking silly questions and venturing a little off topic

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You would load it when you got out of the car.

benton0311 said:

I know this has been basically covered in two threads but I'm still trying to understand the details.

So, as I understand it, according to this I can carry a long gun just as someone with a CCW would carry a handgun, as in loaded/concealed/in the car etc.

Currently MD states that a long gun transported in a vehicle must be kept unloaded. With this new ruling would it be safe to say said long gun can be left in the vehicle loaded?

I've pretty much decided I'm gonna throw some beater pistol grip shotguns in both cars either way. Now I just need to figure out if it's legit to leave shells in the tube. One of the original reasons I was leaning towards pump guns in the first place is that you can drop a shell in an empty gun and close the chamber in a fraction of a second (actually required in my weapons qual).

I apologize ahead of time for asking silly questions and venturing a little off topic

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Well, it's not a new ruling. There have never been particularly clear laws on the books in regard to long guns - except for the one about long gun transport in a vehicle.

benton0311 said:

I know this has been basically covered in two threads but I'm still trying to understand the details.

So, as I understand it, according to this I can carry a long gun just as someone with a CCW would carry a handgun, as in loaded/concealed/in the car etc.

Currently MD states that a long gun transported in a vehicle must be kept unloaded. With this new ruling would it be safe to say said long gun can be left in the vehicle loaded?

I've pretty much decided I'm gonna throw some beater pistol grip shotguns in both cars either way. Now I just need to figure out if it's legit to leave shells in the tube. One of the original reasons I was leaning towards pump guns in the first place is that you can drop a shell in an empty gun and close the chamber in a fraction of a second (actually required in my weapons qual).

I apologize ahead of time for asking silly questions and venturing a little off topic

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I don't think it is a new ruling, just the AG blowing smoke at the judge.

Abacab said:

You would load it when you got out of the car.

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That's kind of what I figured. But I'm also wondering if claiming that long guns may be carried any way a CCW holder carries a handgun contradicts and/or eventually nullifies the old transport law.

Edit: Nevermind on the last part. I just read the above post which makes sense.

benton0311 said:

Currently MD states that a long gun transported in a vehicle must be kept unloaded.

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Really, Where? (and don't quote the hunting statute, because that only applies when hunting.)

Markp said:

Really, Where? (and don't quote the hunting statute, because that only applies when hunting.)

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§ 10-410. Restrictions on hunting wildlife generally.


Not really,

The spotlighting game is in this section, but people (were clearly not hunting or hunters)have been accosted by DNR types for showing their children deer in the field between the road and their home.

Inigoes said:

Which is basically the COMAR listings provided by the AG.

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No, not at all. That COMAR description (assuming you mean this string cite http://www.mdshooters.com/showpost.php?p=1039982&postcount=2341) is actually pretty limited.

What ThatIsAFact referenced is a much broader category of places, plus the catchall "other place of public assembly," that all fall under local (not state) control.

The California open carry folks just have to worry about "school zones." Open carry in MoCO or a jurisdiction with similarly restrictive laws governing the "safety zones" would be pretty much limited to a few select places due to a high number of no-go zones under this "safety zone/place of public assembly" language.