Maryland State Police licensing division overturned

LoneRanger · Aug 21, 2015

montoya32 said:
Wasting your time, Dan.

No he's not.....

Exchanging banter while expressing opposing views is not a waste of time.

dblas is just more diplomatic about it than I am.....I'm more trumpomatic, which many take the wrong way.

He is probably not going to change my mind and I'm not going to change his....I don't have a problem with that and doubt he has a problem with it.

The real waste of time is burying your head in the sand and totally ignoring opposing views....all that does is cause you to eventually smother yourself from a lack of fresh air.

I'm been around a long time and have involved myself in numerous issues of my choosing throughout life, going all the way back to the Vietnam war.....

I have learned there are many paths to take to enact change, a few are the correct path....most are the wrong path....raising your hackles over the minutiae of how HPRB meetings are ran is a wrong path. As I have said before, it is on the same level as internet forum spelling police.

I also learned a long time ago that when you pull the tail of the ruling class....they do bite back...........

Hawkeye · Aug 21, 2015

LoneRanger said:
The real waste of time is burying your head in the sand and totally ignoring opposing views....all that does is cause you to eventually smother yourself from a lack of fresh air.

Then why are you doing exactly that when people try and explain to you the progress that is being made with the HPRB?

LoneRanger · Aug 21, 2015

Hawkeye said:
Then why are you doing exactly that when people try and explain to you the progress that is being made with the HPRB?

My eyes are wide open, my head is up high, the air is fresh and clean.....what I see is minimal progress towards perhaps a couple dozen folks maybe getting a carry permit over period of God knows how many years. Some obviously have a shorter yardstick than I do and call that progress....if the MSP changes policies and takes a broader view of what is G&S.....it is only going to take one MGA session to change that.....

Schipperke · Aug 21, 2015

Hawkeye said:
Then why are you doing exactly that when people try and explain to you the progress that is being made with the HPRB?

Sustainable progress is what would be remarkable. Even if this board does do the magic many are claiming, it all gets torn down again next Progressive Governor. Need legislation and/or court orders for real change.

Some obviously have a shorter yardstick than I do and call that progress

Word up..

BigT5g · Aug 21, 2015

Schipperke said:
Sustainable progress is what would be remarkable. Even if this board does do the magic many are claiming, it all gets torn down again next Progressive Governor. Need legislation and/or court orders for real change.

Absolutely right, but while we have this (hopefully) window of opportunity, why not make hay while the sun shines? I for one will be appealing my restrictions ASAP!

montoya32 · Aug 21, 2015

LoneRanger said:
My eyes are wide open, my head is up high, the air is fresh and clean.....what I see is minimal progress towards perhaps a couple dozen folks maybe getting a carry permit over period of God knows how many years. Some obviously have a shorter yardstick than I do and call that progress....if the MSP changes policies and takes a broader view of what is G&S.....it is only going to take one MGA session to change that.....

So then wait until the end of the next general assembly to be a grumpy old man. We're not going to get legislation and change in delegates and senators for sometime, but right now the needle is moving in our direction and you can't seem to say anything but broad negative, unproductive rants. I think 95% of those on this board know what the ultimate victory would be, but that is not realistic in the next 3 years.

You're acting like a spoiled housewife. You want a Porsche and all your husband wants to give you is a used BMW and that's not good enough.

Muleskinner · Aug 21, 2015

Schipperke said:
Sustainable progress is what would be remarkable. Even if this board does do the magic many are claiming, it all gets torn down again next Progressive Governor. Need legislation and/or court orders for real change.

Schipperke said:

Exactly...that is why Hogan refusing to instruct Pallozi to define G&S as SELF DEFENSE regardless of Frosh's opinion hurts us...had he done this thousands of applications would be submitted and....

Once the permits start flowing like water Frosh WILL file suit....which is EXACTLY what we need...Put this matter into the hands of the court and let it find it's way to the SCOTUS...The precedent is already set....the court WILL force the state to grant a SHALL ISSUE law based upon their prior rulings...

BUT it's never going to happen with an anti 2A governor...which I believe Hogan to be...Until then, the board will slowly trickle out permits 3-4 at a time, denying people their constitutional rights based on their mood of the day....

Click to expand...

Minuteman · Aug 21, 2015

BigT5g said:
Absolutely right, but while we have this (hopefully) window of opportunity, why not make hay while the sun shines? I for one will be appealing my restrictions ASAP!

Agreed, the restrictions are the most agregious aspect of the process. Other than the fact that the average, legitimate, trained, law abiding citizen can't even get a carry permit. If enough of us do try, and encourage others to help, we will get there. I understand the 'it'll never happen' crowd; but their negative cheerleading has a chilling effect on those that are willing to sacrifice time/money/and family to do the right thing. The negativism also blocks a lot of possible future supporters because they hear some say it is futile. What if there were a bunch of people in the 1700's saying we'll never have our own country or Constitution?

See you at the next rally. Or, maybe not?

Jim12 · Aug 21, 2015

The best solution for lasting change is the courts' recognition and enshrinement of civil rights.

The Left figured that out decades ago, SAF has figured that out, and we need to put more focus on that.

O'Malley, the MGA, AG, Bloomberg, and DeMarco must take satisfaction in the knowledge that our 2013 rally of over 4,000 angry people in Annapolis on a cold winter day hasn't even carried over to a court challenge of the HQL. If anyone doubts that, DeMarco keeps reminding us. The frogs have already adjusted to the warmer water, while the Left looks forward to its next opportunity to crank it up more.

swinokur · Aug 21, 2015

montoya32 said:
So then wait until the end of the next general assembly to be a grumpy old man. We're not going to get legislation and change in delegates and senators for sometime, but right now the needle is moving in our direction and you can't seem to say anything but broad negative, unproductive rants. I think 95% of those on this board know what the ultimate victory would be, but that is not realistic in the next 3 years.

You're acting like a spoiled housewife. You want a Porsche and all your husband wants to give you is a used BMW and that's not good enough.

^^^^^

THIS x 2

Applehd · Aug 21, 2015

Even with all of the negative comments, I still have no one on "Ignore".

erwos · Aug 21, 2015

dblas said:
Along the lines of the "7day wait" lawsuit we brought with the other organizations back in 2013.

That was a lovely lawsuit. Resolved the issue quickly with minimal drama. I wish they all will go that easily (like Engage's!).

But, there is no restraint on the number of meetings a month or the the number of appeals they can hear persuasion. That is strictly based on what they can do as they have time.

It would be an interesting question to pose to Mr. Neverdon with regards to "scaling up."

I'll be curious as to that answer, too. The HPRB isn't anyone's full-time job, best as I'm aware... maybe it should be?

BTW, muleskinner and schipperke (and even me) may be annoying to some folks, but I'd prefer this place have lively discussion rather than turn into an echo chamber. The cost of a good conversation is that you're gonna hear opinions you disagree with.

Schipperke · Aug 21, 2015

erwos said:
That was a lovely lawsuit. Resolved the issue quickly with minimal drama. I wish they all will go that easily (like Engage's!).

I'll be curious as to that answer, too. The HPRB isn't anyone's full-time job, best as I'm aware... maybe it should be?

BTW, muleskinner and schipperke (and even me) may be annoying to some folks, but I'd prefer this place have lively discussion rather than turn into an echo chamber. The cost of a good conversation is that you're gonna hear opinions you disagree with.

Whats sad is some truly believe that is the sign of productivity. Don't let facts and history get in the way. What some on this board forget is that all but a handful of people that get declined go and pop a vein and become a wheel so squeeky they get traction. Maybe that works for some, but I don't see it as some watershed moment for the majority of applicants in the pipeline or soon to be.

LoneRanger · Aug 21, 2015

montoya32 said:
So then wait until the end of the next general assembly to be a grumpy old man. We're not going to get legislation and change in delegates and senators for sometime, but right now the needle is moving in our direction and you can't seem to say anything but broad negative, unproductive rants. I think 95% of those on this board know what the ultimate victory would be, but that is not realistic in the next 3 years.

You're acting like a spoiled housewife. You want a Porsche and all your husband wants to give you is a used BMW and that's not good enough.

The amount the needle is moving is immeasurable.

You take my posts as rants....I see it as just expressing an opposing view....you haven't seen me rant yet.....last time I went on a rant it was front page news in the Morning Sun......

Actually I don't much like German cars.....as someone once said "insults only hurt from those I respect".............

montoya32 · Aug 21, 2015

LoneRanger said:
The amount the needle is moving is immeasurable.

You take my posts as rants....I see it as just expressing an opposing view....you haven't seen me rant yet.....last time I went on a rant it was front page news in the Morning Sun......

Actually I don't much like German cars.....as someone once said "insults only hurt from those I respect".............

Ha ha. If you canny see the needle moving, you are too far away from it.
Anyone who has attended two HPRB meetings and knows their ass from a hole in the ground, knows we are seeing steady, incremental and meaningful progress.

USAFRavenR6 · Aug 21, 2015

LoneRanger said:
The amount the needle is moving is immeasurable.

You take my posts as rants....I see it as just expressing an opposing view....you haven't seen me rant yet.....last time I went on a rant it was front page news in the Morning Sun......

Actually I don't much like German cars.....as someone once said "insults only hurt from those I respect".............

Your views carry 0 weight as progress is being made, people are being issued permits based on G&S that would have never been given a second of consideration, yet you still complain. You are truly a spoiled housewife in your thinking and it more than shows.

eruby · Aug 21, 2015

I am somewhere between the Ranger and montoya on this. While it's true denials are being overturned, but the process is arduous and not many have the time/money/inclination to pursue this arduous course.

Even if self defense were made G&S tomorrow, I probably wouldn't apply for a permit as I think the 'scheme' is a sham and utter BS, but that would be my choice.

I hope someday getting a Maryland permit will be like getting a PA permit, but I'm not overly optimistic. I will continue to fight, as I'm stuck here in Maryland for years to come.

MSI meeting September 19, 2015

Schipperke · Aug 21, 2015

montoya32 said:
Ha ha. If you canny see the needle moving, you are too far away from it.
Anyone who has attended two HPRB meetings and knows their ass from a hole in the ground, knows we are seeing steady, incremental and meaningful progress.

Just a different set of scales is all.

BigT5g said:
Absolutely right, but while we have this (hopefully) window of opportunity, why not make hay while the sun shines? I for one will be appealing my restrictions ASAP!

It does read like if one is very proactive, odds may be better for a reversal. Boards do carry biases, and the one that just got replaced was anecdotally immovable. The numbers that will avail themselves to the procedure and state a case adequatley is probably not remarkable "in the big picture." The "window of opportunity" provided by a board that no longer rubber stamps MSP, I fear may not go unnoticed for long. The tail wagging the dog may get chopped off unexpectedly.

Mr H · Aug 21, 2015

I see the actions at HPRB as institutionalization of the foundational changes I've mentioned before. Once it becomes more 'normal', it will be harder to turn the dial back.

It is set to start working in the GA, and MSI and the rest of the .orgs have shown competence in the courts, as well as a willingness to take MSP head-on over policy matters.

Little victories are still victories, and with enough people padding in the same direction, we'll get there.

Bolts Rock · Aug 21, 2015

montoya32 said:
Ha ha. If you canny see the needle moving, you are too far away from it.
Anyone who has attended two HPRB meetings and knows their ass from a hole in the ground, knows we are seeing steady, incremental and meaningful progress.

He's still on the road driving under the speed limit in the left lane. :innocent0

Maryland State Police licensing division overturned

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