208s at 2400, 178s at 2700, 155s at a ****hair under 3, and 208s at an even 1k.
Need Expert Opinions on Sniper Rifle Twist Rate & Barrel Length
- Thread starter HumbleEinstein
- Start date
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208s at 2400, 178s at 2700, 155s at a ****hair under 3, and 208s at an even 1k.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Article on the ideal barrel for a .308 tactical rifle. By Dan Lilja:
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/ideal_barrel_308_tactical_rifle.htm
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/longrange_shooting/ideal_barrel_308_tactical_rifle.htm
sailskidrive
Legalize the Constitution
Since it sounds like you won't be pushing past 300 yards for a while, you could probably start off with a Wally World Rem 700. Once you have the fundamentals down you'll also have a better idea of what you want...
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,295
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,536
http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm
get this. If you're primarily shooting inside of 300 yds, the shorter barrel will be more rigid and will be more consistent as a result. The heavy barrels also soak up heat better than something longer in a skinnier barrel and won't shift as much if you fire a lot in a short period of time. You'll lose a little velocity, but as AF said, it's not that big of a deal in closer. Out further, the longer barrels can lead to more consistent velocities and you won't have as much vertical stringing as you would with a shorter 20" barrel. You'll probably want to switch out the stock for something that is truly free floated and properly beds the action. The trigger might be another good area to improve on as the xmark isn't necessarily the best. toss a timney in and be happy.
for longer range stuff, this seems to be a pretty sweet rifle for the money...
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCPK
get this. If you're primarily shooting inside of 300 yds, the shorter barrel will be more rigid and will be more consistent as a result. The heavy barrels also soak up heat better than something longer in a skinnier barrel and won't shift as much if you fire a lot in a short period of time. You'll lose a little velocity, but as AF said, it's not that big of a deal in closer. Out further, the longer barrels can lead to more consistent velocities and you won't have as much vertical stringing as you would with a shorter 20" barrel. You'll probably want to switch out the stock for something that is truly free floated and properly beds the action. The trigger might be another good area to improve on as the xmark isn't necessarily the best. toss a timney in and be happy.
for longer range stuff, this seems to be a pretty sweet rifle for the money...
http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/10FCPK
I would go with a Wal Mart Savage. You can change your own barrels when you figure out what you want.
smokey
2A TEACHER
- Jan 31, 2008
- 31,536
Savage also makes caliber swaps easy with their floated bolt head and barrel nut.
Exactly. Of course a gunsmith will miss out on a &1000 or so in work.
My last rebarrel job was the blue meanie. Turned down a blank to rem mtn rifle contour, chamber, thread, square action face and lugs, cut and crown. 270 bucks.
Vile Shadow
...
- Feb 28, 2013
- 28,953
Is it possible to have a twist rate that's TOO fast? Seems like faster is better than slower whenever possible, even if you're not sure.
HumbleEinstein
Active Member
Good question. I was thinking the same thing.
occasionally, but it's very seldom. friend had a .22-250 that he punched AI and decided to see what kind of velocity he could get out of 35 and 40-grain pills. 8 twist barrel. (originally posted 14, that was his other 250 that was fine with 40's)
Many of them completely came apart in the air, cause no impact was noted on the berm nor were any holes in the paper. he moved it up to 25 and was getting fragments going thru the paper.
Last edited:
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Yes, but where you see that is .223. A 7 twist barrel with very fast 40 - 50 gr bullets is NOT good.
But in .308, it is hard to get too fast.
As for required accuracy, my wife and I did the Bang Steel class with Dan Newberry. His minimum accuracy requirement is 1.5 MOA, which is a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards. He actually bought a Wally World Savage in .270 and a fixed 4 power Weaver coin slot scope and shot his course of fire for the class out to 1040 yards, but he hit every target. Not first round hits out far, but he actually has come ups based on so many turns and then a clock position for the coin slot.
So if you REALLY don't know what you want or need, get a basic Remington or Savage. Put a decent scope on it and go shoot it. When you get to the point where you are better than the rifle, have it rebarreled and put it in a good stock and enjoy.
Full review of the Bang Steel course is here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=128601
But in .308, it is hard to get too fast.
As for required accuracy, my wife and I did the Bang Steel class with Dan Newberry. His minimum accuracy requirement is 1.5 MOA, which is a 1.5 inch group at 100 yards. He actually bought a Wally World Savage in .270 and a fixed 4 power Weaver coin slot scope and shot his course of fire for the class out to 1040 yards, but he hit every target. Not first round hits out far, but he actually has come ups based on so many turns and then a clock position for the coin slot.
So if you REALLY don't know what you want or need, get a basic Remington or Savage. Put a decent scope on it and go shoot it. When you get to the point where you are better than the rifle, have it rebarreled and put it in a good stock and enjoy.
Full review of the Bang Steel course is here:
http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=128601
Blacksmith101
Grumpy Old Man
- Jun 22, 2012
- 22,295
You could always get yourself a Mann accuracy barrel which is what they test ammunition with for accuracy. It would be a bit heavy.
Here is the Mann Sub Forum on the CMP Forum:
http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=102
Here is the Mann Sub Forum on the CMP Forum:
http://forums.thecmp.org/forumdisplay.php?f=102
antco
Ultimate Member
There is a lot of great advice in this thread but I get the sense from the OP's post that he's a newbie to distance, and as such a lot of this advice is over his head or a couple thousand rounds into his future and not now.
To the OP- My only question is this- What is your budget? This needs to include the rifle and optics. This hobby can get extremely expensive with a quickness.
As for me, I was running a TacOps Tango 51 with a Nightforce 4.5-22x50 on top, shooting Federal Gold Medal Match 168g, which is what the barrel was reamed for. Mike basically builds the rifle around that round due to his client base being shooters and not reloaders. It had a 20" barrel. Twist was 1 in 10" I believe. With the light bullet and short-ish barrel the accuracy would get iffy after ~700 yards. Stepping up to a 175g would cure that but I never did.
Tragically, it was lost in a duck hunting accident. Yup.
To the OP- My only question is this- What is your budget? This needs to include the rifle and optics. This hobby can get extremely expensive with a quickness.
As for me, I was running a TacOps Tango 51 with a Nightforce 4.5-22x50 on top, shooting Federal Gold Medal Match 168g, which is what the barrel was reamed for. Mike basically builds the rifle around that round due to his client base being shooters and not reloaders. It had a 20" barrel. Twist was 1 in 10" I believe. With the light bullet and short-ish barrel the accuracy would get iffy after ~700 yards. Stepping up to a 175g would cure that but I never did.
Tragically, it was lost in a duck hunting accident. Yup.
HumbleEinstein
Active Member
You're absolutely right. Distance shooting is new to me. My budget for the the rifle and optic is 2k to 3k. I will not be doing any reloading.
How far out would 175g take you with that rifle? How much was that scope? How much was the TacOps Tango 51?
I'm very interested in a chassis system that is completely modular. I like the idea of a fully adjustable stock and the ability to attach rail segments where I want. If I knew more about exactly how I'm comfortable, perhaps the adjustability wouldn't be as important to me.
Yoshi
Invictus
First, the TacOps Tango is gonna run you $5k and some change. Very good rifles and very accurate, but you can get a custom rifle that shoots just as good for a lot less. Having said that, I've talked to Mike from TacOps and he's a great guy and I would eventually like to have one of his rifles, but only when I am good enought to shoot to it's potential.
Other customs to consider are Short Action Custom, Spartan Rifles, Long Guns Inc., and Pheonix Precision. Also look at the local talent like Jeff Walker and WAR Rifles who are in VA. And, of course, there's GAP, Surgeon, APA, AJ Brown, etc...
If you're just beginning, I'd seriously look into a Savage. I owned a 20" Model 10 Precision Carbine that ran a SWFA SS 10-42 scope and it was a great rifle to train with. Easily sub-MOA and cost about $1100 including scope, rings, and bipod. A great "trainer" gun. I grew out of it and am shooting a semi-custom Savage with a 20" match grade barrel using the same scope as my previous Savage. Had it out to 1060yds last month with Ed Shell and it performed admirably.
I only shoot the 175s and they work/worked well in both rigs.
As far as the chassis system, my Savage sits in an XLR Chassis. Have to say I like it a lot.
Rem 700 5r, viper pst.
- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
With a $2K budget, you are looking at about $800 - $1000 for the rifle and $1000 or so for the optics.
Don't forget you will NEED a mount ($100) and rings ($100) and want a bipod ($110) and a sling ($74) and a rear bag ($25).
$3K is much better.
For $3K, here is what I would do (and basically what I DID ):
Rem 700 5R - you could also get one of the heavy barrel less expensive rifles and then plan on putting it in a better stock.
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x FFP with mount and rings.
Harris Bipod (swivel with notched legs) with Pod Lock
Reasonable sling
Timney Trigger or Tuned Rem Trigger
Spend the rest of ammunition and long range shooting class.
My rifle is:
Remington PS-1 (similar to PSS) 24" heavy barrel
Manners T-4A stock with Mini Chassis
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x FFP Scope, Talley 20 MOA mount and Burris XTR rings
Timney Trigger
Tactical Bolt knob (Kampfeld knob installed by Short Action Customs)
Burris S-BRM bipod with Pod Lock
Armegeddon Sling
TAB rear bag
I have right about $3K in it, but the rifle was purchased a number of years ago, so only $600 for the base rifle.
Don't forget you will NEED a mount ($100) and rings ($100) and want a bipod ($110) and a sling ($74) and a rear bag ($25).
$3K is much better.
For $3K, here is what I would do (and basically what I DID
):Rem 700 5R - you could also get one of the heavy barrel less expensive rifles and then plan on putting it in a better stock.
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x FFP with mount and rings.
Harris Bipod (swivel with notched legs) with Pod Lock
Reasonable sling
Timney Trigger or Tuned Rem Trigger
Spend the rest of ammunition and long range shooting class.
My rifle is:
Remington PS-1 (similar to PSS) 24" heavy barrel
Manners T-4A stock with Mini Chassis
Vortex Viper PST 6-24x FFP Scope, Talley 20 MOA mount and Burris XTR rings
Timney Trigger
Tactical Bolt knob (Kampfeld knob installed by Short Action Customs)
Burris S-BRM bipod with Pod Lock
Armegeddon Sling
TAB rear bag
I have right about $3K in it, but the rifle was purchased a number of years ago, so only $600 for the base rifle.
sailskidrive
Legalize the Constitution
About $3k into this one over the years.... I would like a different stock but the setup works well for the $$$ spent.
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