- Feb 4, 2013
- 28,175
Bangsteel Long Range Rifle Course
www.bangsteel.com
My wife and I were going to be in the area of Wytheville, VA recently, so I contacted Dan Newberry to see if he had a course that would work for us to attend. He offered, that since there were two of us, he would offer a course on the dates that would work for us, assuming no conflicts. We came up with some dates, so scheduled the course. This review is has comments and information from both of us, so it is not only the male perspective.
Dan Newberry is the developer of the Optimum Charge Weight (OCW)method of developing an accurate load for your rifle. Dan offers consulting on your load development. He provided me with some assistance via Sniper’s Hide forum for developing a load to shoot in the course. It worked quite well. Developing an accurate load before the class, and loading enough ammunition for the class (maybe even more than enough) will eliminate problems and make the class more fun, less frustrating, and give you more quality shooting time.
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
The course is two days and you spend most of the time at the range. Both days start with classroom at Dan’s house, complete with fresh brewed coffee. This is good, because Dan likes to start at 8AM. Since this was vacation for me, that is earlier than my brain works.
The first day Dan collects information about what each person is shooting and the load. He discusses basic concepts such as proper use of the scope, eye position to avoid parallax errors, basic trajectory, scope leveling, range estimation using the reticle, wind estimation, and wind correction. A few things were simplified to the point where my engineer background had me go, “Huh?” But in every case, the simplification did not change the understanding of the issue, in fact, for most people, it made it easier to understand and did not affect the results by using the simplified explanation.
For wind correction, he supplied for each shooter a correction list based on their load, which made it simple and quick to get the correction. Instead of trying to figure a different wind correction for every 10 or 25 yards, he gave a wind correction for large blocks of range. His idea is that, this will get you on target or close on your first shot. His method is at least as accurate as your estimation of winds over the flight path of the bullet.
The first day class was about 3 hours, and then we headed to the range. The range is a farmer's field that has an array of steel targets. The shooting position is in front of a hay barn and the ground falls away in all directions. The shooting area is backed by a high ridge. The terrain allows easy line of sight to all the targets, but also can make the wind tricky. A paper target holder is used for 100 yards, and then there are various sizes and shapes of steel out to 1 mile range.
Dan requires that each shooter be able to demonstrate a 1.5 MOA group (1.5”) at 100 yards as minimum level of performance for a shooter and their rifle. Dan does not believe that you need a super fancy, super tricked out, ¼ MOA rifle to shoot long distance. In fact, he feels you can do his course with a WallyWorld rifle and scope. He actually shot his course of fire out to 1040 yards with a WallyWorld Savage with a Weaver 4x fixed power scope with coin slot turrets. Not first round hits, but he managed to figure it out and repeat it.
Since he knew that I could shoot the required level from our conversations on load development, and the third student had attended a 1 day clinic, we did not shoot formal groups. He did have use check the 100 yard zero of our rifles. I had assured him my wife could shoot better than I do with a rifle. He had her fire two rounds for zero at 100 yards, on the same target as I used, and she dropped her two in with my two for a nice tight group, well under 1.5”. So the group was good to go.
Dan has a nice easy style of instructing. It was interesting over the two days. At first he would give you the wind correction, but telling you how he arrived at it. And as the class went on, we would be telling what we thought and he would agree, until finally we were making our own calls. No pressure and learning at each person’s pace.
After the warm up at 100 yards, we moved to getting our come ups at 200 and 300 yards. My wife and I, used Ballistic AE on my iPhone for a reference, then we fine-tuned as needed. That done we just started working out the targets to longer and longer ranges. Everyone shot as much as they wanted at each range, but everyone had to get a hit before they moved on. I would say that first day; almost every shooter at every range managed a first or second round hit. And this was out to 880 yards!. That day the winds were between 0 and 8 MPH and pretty much right to left full value all day. The second day was not going to be so kind. Due to our small class and some luck (I would say great shooting, but I am trying to be humble ), we got done a bit early on the first day, but all of us felt we had a productive day and had learned a lot.
Dan allows you to decide how you want to do things, with comments and suggestions. My wife and I decided we preferred to dial for elevation, but hold off for winds. With the Vortex Viper PST FFP (EBR-1 reticle) this worked well for us. The third student preferred to dial for winds. The entire class was to work out what worked for YOU, not some one size fits all way of doing things.
The second day started with a short class session. This class, Dan discussed spin drift and Coriolis affect and put them in context versus the wind estimation errors. After about 1.5 hours of class, we headed the range.
This day was not going to be kind to us. The wind was blowing from 0 to 15 MPH over the day, and at the shooting position clocking from dead in our faces to full from behind and everywhere in between. At times, the midrange wind would be left to right, instead of right to left at the target and shooting position. At a single time, we had 15 MPH at one place and 0 at another along the bullet flight path. It was also threatening heavy rain and storms. Dan does have a couple of canopies to keep you out of most of the rain if needed, so we set one up.
We started the day at 410 yards and worked our way back out to 880 and beyond. The swirling winds made wind calls a lot harder, especially as the students were now making most of the calls, with agreement or comment by Dan. Less first or second round hits today, but they did occur. But everyone was pretty much on target within 4 rounds . We worked out to 1040 and some issues occurred. The third student was having some issues with consistency with point of impact. Dan worked with him and even provided some ammunition to try. My wife decided to stop after good hits at 1040 yards, she didn’t want to push her luck. But I decided I wanted to try 1200 yards. It took a few rounds, with wind holds varying from 2 mils left to 1 mil right; but I got several hits and called it a day at that range.
We all decided to go back to the 740 yard target to play with wind calls. This is a 12” square steel plate at 740 yards. But by this time, this was looking like a reasonable shot, not easy, but not so tough as to be discouraging. I did also push myself with a 6” target at 660 yards, and also managed to get some hits on it.
The day was somewhat frustrating with the fluky winds, but we learned a lot about reading the wind and making quick corrections to rapidly changing conditions. The humidity, fog, and rain gave Dan a chance to discuss the possible implications for those shooting conditions.
We had some drizzle while shooting, but the radar image was showing some serious storms on the way in the afternoon, so we stopped early. But again, we all felt we had gotten a lot out of the day and the course. On both days, it was the students’ decision to stop early; Dan would have been content if we kept on shooting. And at that point, our brains were near overload anyway.
Overall, I would say this course is well worth the money. I like Dan’s style, which gives you the information you need, without being overly down in the details and confusing when it is not needed. Also, I liked that he allowed each person to work with what worked best for them. He did provide suggestions of alternative ways of doing things, but YOU picked what worked for you. He gives you the tools you need, without forcing you to use them his way. If you want an in depth analysis of why things work the way they do, Dan can provide that also.
If you find yourself with a couple of days in Southwest Virginia, you can have a great time and learn a lot spending time with Dan Newberry and Bangsteel. And as I mentioned, you do not need some super tricked out long range rifle to do the course, a good hunting setup will work. As long as you can make the basic shoots you’ll enjoy the course. You don’t need to be a sniper want-to-be or highpower rifle geek to have a great time. Wives and kids would have fun and it could actually be a good family activity. You should have a bipod, but sandbags can be used, and a scope level (Dan has extras to sell you) is necessary. Also, my wife and I shared a rifle. Only one person shoots at a time (at least with our small class), so it was easy to share.
www.bangsteel.com
My wife and I were going to be in the area of Wytheville, VA recently, so I contacted Dan Newberry to see if he had a course that would work for us to attend. He offered, that since there were two of us, he would offer a course on the dates that would work for us, assuming no conflicts. We came up with some dates, so scheduled the course. This review is has comments and information from both of us, so it is not only the male perspective.
Dan Newberry is the developer of the Optimum Charge Weight (OCW)method of developing an accurate load for your rifle. Dan offers consulting on your load development. He provided me with some assistance via Sniper’s Hide forum for developing a load to shoot in the course. It worked quite well. Developing an accurate load before the class, and loading enough ammunition for the class (maybe even more than enough) will eliminate problems and make the class more fun, less frustrating, and give you more quality shooting time.
http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/
The course is two days and you spend most of the time at the range. Both days start with classroom at Dan’s house, complete with fresh brewed coffee. This is good, because Dan likes to start at 8AM. Since this was vacation for me, that is earlier than my brain works.
The first day Dan collects information about what each person is shooting and the load. He discusses basic concepts such as proper use of the scope, eye position to avoid parallax errors, basic trajectory, scope leveling, range estimation using the reticle, wind estimation, and wind correction. A few things were simplified to the point where my engineer background had me go, “Huh?” But in every case, the simplification did not change the understanding of the issue, in fact, for most people, it made it easier to understand and did not affect the results by using the simplified explanation.
For wind correction, he supplied for each shooter a correction list based on their load, which made it simple and quick to get the correction. Instead of trying to figure a different wind correction for every 10 or 25 yards, he gave a wind correction for large blocks of range. His idea is that, this will get you on target or close on your first shot. His method is at least as accurate as your estimation of winds over the flight path of the bullet.
The first day class was about 3 hours, and then we headed to the range. The range is a farmer's field that has an array of steel targets. The shooting position is in front of a hay barn and the ground falls away in all directions. The shooting area is backed by a high ridge. The terrain allows easy line of sight to all the targets, but also can make the wind tricky. A paper target holder is used for 100 yards, and then there are various sizes and shapes of steel out to 1 mile range.
Dan requires that each shooter be able to demonstrate a 1.5 MOA group (1.5”) at 100 yards as minimum level of performance for a shooter and their rifle. Dan does not believe that you need a super fancy, super tricked out, ¼ MOA rifle to shoot long distance. In fact, he feels you can do his course with a WallyWorld rifle and scope. He actually shot his course of fire out to 1040 yards with a WallyWorld Savage with a Weaver 4x fixed power scope with coin slot turrets. Not first round hits, but he managed to figure it out and repeat it.
Since he knew that I could shoot the required level from our conversations on load development, and the third student had attended a 1 day clinic, we did not shoot formal groups. He did have use check the 100 yard zero of our rifles. I had assured him my wife could shoot better than I do with a rifle. He had her fire two rounds for zero at 100 yards, on the same target as I used, and she dropped her two in with my two for a nice tight group, well under 1.5”. So the group was good to go.
Dan has a nice easy style of instructing. It was interesting over the two days. At first he would give you the wind correction, but telling you how he arrived at it. And as the class went on, we would be telling what we thought and he would agree, until finally we were making our own calls. No pressure and learning at each person’s pace.
After the warm up at 100 yards, we moved to getting our come ups at 200 and 300 yards. My wife and I, used Ballistic AE on my iPhone for a reference, then we fine-tuned as needed. That done we just started working out the targets to longer and longer ranges. Everyone shot as much as they wanted at each range, but everyone had to get a hit before they moved on. I would say that first day; almost every shooter at every range managed a first or second round hit. And this was out to 880 yards!. That day the winds were between 0 and 8 MPH and pretty much right to left full value all day. The second day was not going to be so kind. Due to our small class and some luck (I would say great shooting, but I am trying to be humble ), we got done a bit early on the first day, but all of us felt we had a productive day and had learned a lot.
Dan allows you to decide how you want to do things, with comments and suggestions. My wife and I decided we preferred to dial for elevation, but hold off for winds. With the Vortex Viper PST FFP (EBR-1 reticle) this worked well for us. The third student preferred to dial for winds. The entire class was to work out what worked for YOU, not some one size fits all way of doing things.
The second day started with a short class session. This class, Dan discussed spin drift and Coriolis affect and put them in context versus the wind estimation errors. After about 1.5 hours of class, we headed the range.
This day was not going to be kind to us. The wind was blowing from 0 to 15 MPH over the day, and at the shooting position clocking from dead in our faces to full from behind and everywhere in between. At times, the midrange wind would be left to right, instead of right to left at the target and shooting position. At a single time, we had 15 MPH at one place and 0 at another along the bullet flight path. It was also threatening heavy rain and storms. Dan does have a couple of canopies to keep you out of most of the rain if needed, so we set one up.
We started the day at 410 yards and worked our way back out to 880 and beyond. The swirling winds made wind calls a lot harder, especially as the students were now making most of the calls, with agreement or comment by Dan. Less first or second round hits today, but they did occur. But everyone was pretty much on target within 4 rounds . We worked out to 1040 and some issues occurred. The third student was having some issues with consistency with point of impact. Dan worked with him and even provided some ammunition to try. My wife decided to stop after good hits at 1040 yards, she didn’t want to push her luck. But I decided I wanted to try 1200 yards. It took a few rounds, with wind holds varying from 2 mils left to 1 mil right; but I got several hits and called it a day at that range.
We all decided to go back to the 740 yard target to play with wind calls. This is a 12” square steel plate at 740 yards. But by this time, this was looking like a reasonable shot, not easy, but not so tough as to be discouraging. I did also push myself with a 6” target at 660 yards, and also managed to get some hits on it.
The day was somewhat frustrating with the fluky winds, but we learned a lot about reading the wind and making quick corrections to rapidly changing conditions. The humidity, fog, and rain gave Dan a chance to discuss the possible implications for those shooting conditions.
We had some drizzle while shooting, but the radar image was showing some serious storms on the way in the afternoon, so we stopped early. But again, we all felt we had gotten a lot out of the day and the course. On both days, it was the students’ decision to stop early; Dan would have been content if we kept on shooting. And at that point, our brains were near overload anyway.
Overall, I would say this course is well worth the money. I like Dan’s style, which gives you the information you need, without being overly down in the details and confusing when it is not needed. Also, I liked that he allowed each person to work with what worked best for them. He did provide suggestions of alternative ways of doing things, but YOU picked what worked for you. He gives you the tools you need, without forcing you to use them his way. If you want an in depth analysis of why things work the way they do, Dan can provide that also.
If you find yourself with a couple of days in Southwest Virginia, you can have a great time and learn a lot spending time with Dan Newberry and Bangsteel. And as I mentioned, you do not need some super tricked out long range rifle to do the course, a good hunting setup will work. As long as you can make the basic shoots you’ll enjoy the course. You don’t need to be a sniper want-to-be or highpower rifle geek to have a great time. Wives and kids would have fun and it could actually be a good family activity. You should have a bipod, but sandbags can be used, and a scope level (Dan has extras to sell you) is necessary. Also, my wife and I shared a rifle. Only one person shoots at a time (at least with our small class), so it was easy to share.
