Shall Issue referendum

jonnyl · Apr 22, 2014

frogman68 said:
You do know your rights have been infringed by popular vote. Toeing the line that MSI and the NRA says will get you no where. Any fight we can bring them we should

....
The referundum had a better chance then Craig ( or any Rebuplican ) getting elected Governor

Yes, I'm aware my rights are currently infringed. The difference is that I've never said it was ok as long as that's what the majority wanted.

I'm against it in principle because it's not up to the majority to decide. However, from a practical point of view I don't think it would stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning.

I imagine the wording we'd end up with would be along the lines of "Do you think rednecks, criminals, psychos, and other assorted Rambo wannabe's should be able to carry loaded AK47 Glocks everywhere they want in MD?"

teratos · Apr 22, 2014

danb said:
Dem turnout in mid cycle elections is low. The R does not need to WIN MoCo, PG, or Baltimore, just not lose too badly. Erlich did it. It can be done. Stop being a negative nellie and get your fat frog ass out and vote.

The question with Erlich is did he win the election, or did Townsend lose it?

Is Brown as big a boob as Townsend? The one helpful thing is that Brown and Gansler are going to proceed to try to destroy each other. The Republicans can sit back and watch for now.

Mr H · Apr 22, 2014

teratos said:
The question with Erlich is did he win the election, or did Townsend lose it?

Some of each, IMO

Is Brown as big a boob as Townsend?

Almost. "If you want to shoot a gun, join the Army" is only slightly less myopic than, "They got a football, then we came back and got a football."

The one helpful thing is that Brown and Gansler are going to proceed to try to destroy each other. The Republicans can sit back and watch for now.

Yes. Setting them up to break their banks while defending their inadequacies would be a delightful thing.

Matlack · Apr 22, 2014

Its already been said but you cant petition a law that doesnt exist to the ballot in Maryland.

teratos said:
The question with Erlich is did he win the election, or did Townsend lose it?

Is Brown as big a boob as Townsend? The one helpful thing is that Brown and Gansler are going to proceed to try to destroy each other. The Republicans can sit back and watch for now.

Townsend was a horrible candidate, she had way to much baggage to deal with. She wasnt personable. Ehrlich was just lucky to be the person running against her. Right timing and right opponent. Both Brown and Gansler are fairly personable people.

People still like O'Malley. They will likely vote for his lackey Brown. The republicans cant sit back and wait. They have to get out front. Hogan will probably win the primary because he is getting out front of the other candidates. He is raising money and getting his name out to the un-educated voters. He is playing it smart by not saying anything other than vote for me. He is avoiding all public events, which I personally dont like. But it is also avoiding controversy. He is basically saying he doesnt have any opposition. The other republican candidates are taking harder conservative stances, which will not win a general state wide election. The failure of the republican party is to start hard right then try to swing back to the middle. It hasnt worked and wont any time soon.

danb · Apr 22, 2014

teratos said:
The question with Erlich is did he win the election, or did Townsend lose it?

Is Brown as big a boob as Townsend? The one helpful thing is that Brown and Gansler are going to proceed to try to destroy each other. The Republicans can sit back and watch for now.

Both: Erlich managed to get R turnout higher than for a presidential cycle, bucking the norm; Townsend was a boob, voters werw not enthusiastic.

abean4187 · Apr 22, 2014

teratos said:
The question with Erlich is did he win the election, or did Townsend lose it?

Is Brown as big a boob as Townsend? The one helpful thing is that Brown and Gansler are going to proceed to try to destroy each other. The Republicans can sit back and watch for now.

That election was a perfect storm for Republicans. Townsend was terrible so they picked the less terrible option. Unless a nuclear bomb goes off in PG or Baltimore there is no way a Republican is winning this race. Brown will be our next governor, sorry guys, reality is a hard cold meal sometimes.

AntiGun · Apr 22, 2014

abean4187 said:
That election was a perfect storm for Republicans. Townsend was terrible so they picked the less terrible option. Unless a nuclear bomb goes off in PG or Baltimore there is no way a Republican is winning this race. Brown will be our next governor, sorry guys, reality is a hard cold meal sometimes.

Who pissed in your cornflakes?

Understanding what you're up against and just giving up before you start are very different things.

MDFF2008 · Apr 22, 2014

It's not even possible to begin with. Maryland has no legal means to place original legislation on the ballet.

You can only petition a law that has past in the last session.

occbrian · Apr 22, 2014

gprimr1 said:
It's not even possible to begin with. Maryland has no legal means to place original legislation on the ballet.

You can only petition a law that has past in the last session.

This.

Straightshooter · Apr 22, 2014

Matlack said:
Its already been said but you cant petition a law that doesnt exist to the ballot in Maryland.

Townsend was a horrible candidate, she had way to much baggage to deal with. She wasnt personable. Ehrlich was just lucky to be the person running against her. Right timing and right opponent. Both Brown and Gansler are fairly personable people.

People still like O'Malley. They will likely vote for his lackey Brown. The republicans cant sit back and wait. They have to get out front. Hogan will probably win the primary because he is getting out front of the other candidates. He is raising money and getting his name out to the un-educated voters. He is playing it smart by not saying anything other than vote for me. He is avoiding all public events, which I personally dont like. But it is also avoiding controversy. He is basically saying he doesnt have any opposition. The other republican candidates are taking harder conservative stances, which will not win a general state wide election. The failure of the republican party is to start hard right then try to swing back to the middle. It hasnt worked and wont any time soon.

He didn't avoid one public event last night.
I attended a Meet & Greet for Jeanie Haddaway last night at the Ocean Pride restaurant in Lutherville from 4-6pm. Cavey (Hogan's right hand man)showed up around 5pm to put up Hogan signs for a Hogan Meet & Greet that was to start at 6. He had no idea we were there and the place was loaded with Craig signs out front including a 4'x8' that was requested by the owner. I thought chain smoking was just a catch phrase until I saw Cavey pacing the parking lot.

danb · Apr 22, 2014

teratos said:
The question with Erlich is did he win the election, or did Townsend lose it?

Is Brown as big a boob as Townsend? The one helpful thing is that Brown and Gansler are going to proceed to try to destroy each other. The Republicans can sit back and watch for now.

got tired of repeating myself across several threads, so I put the election returns here:

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=150761

NavyATFP · Apr 22, 2014

danb said:
No. 1000% wrong. The republicans have an excellent chance (of winning the gov) this year. All they really need to do is get republicans who voted in 2012 for Romney out to vote in 2014, and convert a (relative handful) of Democrats on fiscal issues.

The referendum is much harder. Not all republicans are pro-gun. The democrats who will swing to R on fiscal issues will not swing pro-gun. It could even damage the R chances of winning by motivating more Dems to come out and vote.

Do you assume that all those guns sold last year here in MD were only to republicans? Do you go under this assumption that all MD Democrat Voting Card holders are some how anti gun? Don't let the loud minority from this side of the fence fool you. Many of us like to protect our homes also.

danb · Apr 22, 2014

NavyATFP said:
Do you assume that all those guns sold last year here in MD were only to republicans? Do you go under this assumption that all MD Democrat Voting Card holders are some how anti gun? Don't let the loud minority from this side of the fence fool you. Many of us like to protect our homes also.

As I said in my post, there are many anti-gun republicans, and many pro-gun democrats. I have personally voted both Dem and Rep in the past. If there were enough people to support a pro-gun referendum in this state, we would have a pro-gun legislature. We would not need a referendum in the first place. And, the current anti-gun legislature gets to write the text of the ballot initiative.

When I see pro-2A delegates being elected in Baltimore City or PG County, I will change my mind.

CrazySanMan · Apr 22, 2014

Straightshooter said:
He didn't avoid one public event last night.
I attended a Meet & Greet for Jeanie Haddaway last night at the Ocean Pride restaurant in Lutherville from 4-6pm. Cavey (Hogan's right hand man)showed up around 5pm to put up Hogan signs for a Hogan Meet & Greet that was to start at 6. He had no idea we were there and the place was loaded with Craig signs out front including a 4'x8' that was requested by the owner. I thought chain smoking was just a catch phrase until I saw Cavey pacing the parking lot.

A few days ago Cavey posted on Facebook how good he felt working on the campaign, like all the hard work was worth it. (Remember Cavey was going to unseat Brochin then quit the race to work for Hogan). I said "Will you still feel that way when Brochin wins and Hogan doesnt?"

He didn't respond.

NavyATFP · Apr 22, 2014

danb said:
When I see pro-2A delegates being elected in Baltimore City or PG County, I will change my mind.

Until I see some large amount of these so called "Pro 2A" delegates you speak of step up to the plate and start tackling items like the NFA and other previous infringements on the the 2nd why even think any of them are really more Pro than any other because they were so against SB281?

The problem with this is it's become a party thing now and so many of them on both sides just tow the line unless they are in the minority or know something wont pass anyway. Then they become so vocal about all the "great" things they are doing for our Constitutional rights. Sorry but this will be an all or nothing issue. Republican, Democrat, Heads They Win Tails You Lose.

Straightshooter · Apr 22, 2014

That's it, drive the guy over the edge.

mudskipper · Apr 22, 2014

Why have a referendum with all these victories we keep racking up in the courts, right?

I mean, all I keep hearing is "this next case is gonna be the one, so please support _______, because they're working for YOUR rights!"

I'm starting to think that all this opposition for a referendum around here is because it would be bad for fundrasing.

I mean, if y'all ever did get shall issue, then what's the point anymore?

But it stays just out of reach, year after year, the money keeps rolling in.

Unpopular sentiment - I jump in it.

MDFF2008 · Apr 23, 2014

The Pro-2A delegates do make noise, they do tackle the issues, but the votes just aren't there. Mike Smiegel can introduce bill after bill, tear apart anti after anti, but when there aren't enough votes on the HJC to pass it, nothings going to happen. As long as Frosh is on the SJC, he's going to pocket veto the bills. Until we can get them some help, expecting them to change the state is asking the impossible.

Do you know why referendums worked in Colorado? Focused efforts. They didn't try to remove Hickenlooper with a statewide effort, they targeted specific people. That's what we want to do with election 2014, but everyone wants to moan and groan.

You want to effect change, there is a g-d damn election in 2 months and there I've seen people in cardiac arrest with stronger pulses than the energy to do something.

It really annoys me how people want to talk about a referendum, a massive, statewide undertaking involving incredible amounts of man hours and money but we have to beg people to help when we have an election coming in 2 months.

I mean, all I keep hearing is "this next case is gonna be the one, so please support _______, because they're working for YOUR rights!"

Shall we talk about the earth shattering success of petitions in election 2012?

In reality, here's what's happening:

We are having yet another fight "referendum vs lawsuit" when there is NO LEGAL MEANS TO EVEN HAVE ONE. So instead of working together to do some publicity activities for election 2014, which occurs in 2 months, we are just going to rant on the computer.

We are arguing a moot point while every day, election 2014 gets closer and closer and work isn't being done.

Biggfoot44 · Apr 23, 2014

We don't even really Want a public declaration of Gubanatorial action on G&S . We want an under the table wink & nod that we can believe.

For the GOP candidate to have a shot , it will be on the basis of good goverence and fiscal responsability. Done right , that can make inroads to Dems and RINOs. Forget winning Balt City and PG , but moving from 10% to 35% of the vote there can put statewide within reach.

Publicly advocating CCW reform will evaporate their crossover support.

So far Hogan is campaigning to actually BE Govenor, and the rest of GOP field is campaigning to be the most Glorious Looser. They may actually right in their views. There may well be a greater good at bringing certain issues into public discourse per se. But it's not going to get them into the State House in Md .

( And now being a DINO , we have Tweedle Dee and Treedle Dum in the Dem primary , and a meaningful GOP primary . Oh well , on to the AG and Delegate races. )

teratos · Apr 23, 2014

mudskipper said:
I'm starting to think that all this opposition for a referendum around here is because it would be bad for fundrasing.

Right. It takes $10's of millions to run a referendum. Even with SB281, people didn't donate anywhere near $100,000 to MSI. Where is that money going to come from? I wish one of the pro-referendum people would tell me.

Shall Issue referendum

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