camo556
Ultimate Member
- Aug 29, 2021
- 2,634
A lot of people on the form 1 faceplant group say they got denied without even buying parts.
I suspect some sort of glitch.
I suspect some sort of glitch.
Reports of Mass Disapprovals of eForm 1 Silencers
- Thread starter redsandman6
- Start date
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camo556
Ultimate Member
- Aug 29, 2021
- 2,634
And even if its not an actual glitch, I predict that they reverse whatever did this and call it a glitch.
Would be interesting to see how the volume of form 1 submissions for silencers has developed over time. I bet there is an inflection point where something that was very uncommon turned into a flood of similar applications. It would also be interesting to see a sample of those form 1 whether there is something that ties them together in the agencies mind. Its like when the zoning board receives 100 objections to a development and they all have different names on them but have the same wording and were dropped in the mail the same day at a small post office at the location of a competing developer.
Intentional glitch.Glitch with a purpose.
NFA tracker used to ask what you were transferring/building, but I think they stopped doing that. That would have been a good resource for this question. No doubt in my mind that volume has gone way up over the past few years.
euchre98
Active Member
Yes….dump out all the form 1s. Start lightening fast form 4 approvals. The diy industry dies off…
IMBLITZVT
Ultimate Member
Yeah I was thinking the same thing. How do they know. Its like a catch 22. You can not legally have suppressor parts, only a complete suppressor. So you can only make a suppressor out of a single part or you have multiple parts and only one approved form, so its illegal because then you have suppressor parts. Some crazy stuff in the world right now.
Haha, I thought about this too. I have a form 4 and a form 5 in right now! However I then remembered, my form 5 went in with a form 1 to reactivate a MG! So lets hope that does not get the rejection letter too!
I think the issue is ATF is looking at solvent traps like 80s. You and I and they know the things are intended to be made in to silencers (hopefully after you have a form 1 done and stamp in hand!)
But as for what the NFA says, that makes them suppressor parts. Even if it isn’t functional yet. And that makes the solvent trap maker the manufacturer. And for a suppressor, you can’t be the maker of a can from already NFA parts. You’d need an FFL/SOT to do that.
So you can’t form 1 a silencer with a solvent trap.
You’d need to build one from scratch or from parts not intended to be part of a silencer. Get a form 1 and get a maglight and some actual automotive freeze plugs and a former I guess. Or actually mill things from bar stock or similar.
That’s my assumption of what the ATF is deciding. And per the NFA, they probably have a pretty good legal case. Even if it is stupid.
Right, that would make sense if you submitted a parts lists and drawings with your form1, but you don't do that. They just presume that you are using illegal parts, and unless they have concrete evidence for that , I don't see how their apparent blanket determination will hold up under judicial review.
All this over a product that never should have been regulated at all.
What exactly do these morons think they are accomplishing?
What exactly do these morons think they are accomplishing?
magnumpi
Active Member
I have seen several screen shots posted of alleged emails with ATF about this. Apparently they are planning to start requiring parts lists, pics, and diagrams for form 1 applications to insure you are not making them from kits. If so why not announce that first before just randomly denying applications.
I also don't understand why it really matters how it's built, it is still registered with a tax stamp, same as if you purchased one already complete. I can almost understand why they are going after the kit manufacturers, I don't agree with it but can see some logic to it at least. I know, I know, logic doesn't exist within the ATF. I wonder how much time effort and money is going into enforcing this new 'rule" and how it gonna stop crime or make anyone safer? That is the purpose of the ATF isn't it?
This is all a ploy by the Big Silencer Companies, just like Big Pharma they are in bed with the ATF lining their pockets at the expense of personal liberty.
/s
Now in all seriousness, what this does is create an opportunity for a company like GhostGunner to develop a simple automated home lathe in a box so that bar stock can be easily turned into tubes, threaded adaptors and baffle cups. I suspect a savvy tech/machinist can already use a modified Grizzly with NC control to do this right now for less than $4k.
/s
Now in all seriousness, what this does is create an opportunity for a company like GhostGunner to develop a simple automated home lathe in a box so that bar stock can be easily turned into tubes, threaded adaptors and baffle cups. I suspect a savvy tech/machinist can already use a modified Grizzly with NC control to do this right now for less than $4k.
I have about $1500 into my Grizzly lathe. That with updated bearings, tooling and my time to polish the ways etc. I have DRO. The operations one needs to make baffles are quite basic.
How about I buy the parts to upgrade it up to full CNC. You’ll need learn Fusion360 and Mach3, and I can teach you. Then you’ll be able go from just mere doctor status, to full fledged mad scientist status.
Now it starts to make more sense. I wonder how much this policy is grounded in actual regulation and whether this substantive change in how they process form 1 would have required a NPRM etc.
The goal of the administrative state is to administrate everything. I hear there is a state that at one point taxed and regulated the rain that falls on your property.
Super killy silencers that allow assassins to kill people without anyone hearing it* are being made without the government giving it's blessing. That's why.
* as we have seen it in the movies so many times, just a quiet 'plopp' sound and the victim immediately collapses.
