MSP being ridiculous about my CCW app: Appeal Sent In!

[montoya32]

Because I've read what happened to others trying to spin they were carrying under their restrictions and ended up becoming prohibited from owning firearms. Most of this is an academic exercise anyway. If you know how to conceal a firearm whether permitted or not , what are the odds of being caught to even put the theory to the test.

That is exactly my point. The restrictions are vague and lead to assuming and are wide open to interpretation. What one thinks is a function business an other may see as a personal errand.

 

[Abacab]

I didnt read entire thread.

There should be no restrictions.

I heard (I don't know if this is true), that the machine used to print the carry cards is essentially the same as for drivers licenses. On the software to create a drivers license (and now CCW permit), there's a box asking for any restrictions. Some well meaning, but ignorant person started putting arbitrary restrictions on CCW permits. When you read the law it doesn't say anything about restrictions just if you have a valid permit or not. Unfortunately if an officer is looking at it, they likely won't know the law and believe the restriction has some weight. Could cause an expensive and awkward trip down town.

Pro gun groups should be working to remove these restrictions. The MDSP superintendent could just tell the clerks to stop putting restrictions on permits. Problem solved.

Restrictions do have weight now. They are now codified under SB281. If they determine you are outside your restrictions, you are carrying your gun on the same legal level as a felon who just got out of jail. I am willing to bet he would probably get lighter sentence too.

 

[Schipperke]

That is exactly my point. The restrictions are vague and lead to assuming and are wide open to interpretation. What one thinks is a function business an other may see as a personal errand.

What's vague to you, won't be vague to a judge, but go ahead..

 

[montoya32]

What's vague to you, won't be vague to a judge, but go ahead..

Then lay out the boundaries of a permit and what is and isn't considered a "business activity". It is not defined just and good and substantial is not defined.

 

[PJDiesel]

Mine says "business financial transactions".

But also says between my home and business and any rental properties I own (without mention of what I could be engaged in).

So, being vague, as long as I am geographically between my home and anything else I own,... I'm good.

 

[montoya32]

Mine says "business financial transactions".

But also says between my home and business and any rental properties I own (without mention of what I could be engaged in).

So, being vague, as long as I am geographically between my home and anything else I own,... I'm good.

Mine just says "while conducting business as a licensed real estate agent".

 

[BlackBart]

Push comes to shove you're GTG on showing properties and open houses........... outside of that, Maryland oppression will trump.

 

[montoya32]

Push comes to shove you're GTG on showing properties and open houses........... outside of that, Maryland oppression will trump.

Again, your interpretation, my interpretation, an officer's interpretation and a judges interpretation may all be different.

 

[PJDiesel]

Mine just says "while conducting business as a licensed real estate agent".

Far as I'd concerned, that's unrestricted. You ******** with someone at Wawa about a listing, drive by house you are previewing for a buyer, drive around looking for key you lost.

Ef it.

 

[Schipperke]

Push comes to shove you're GTG on showing properties and open houses........... outside of that, Maryland oppression will trump.

+1

 

[BlackBart]

Again, your interpretation, my interpretation, an officer's interpretation and a judges interpretation may all be different.

True but having been a native Marylander born and bred I think my interpretation is pretty safe on the way they think. Again, I did what I thought I had to do when my kids were small...... I got lucky and got away with it.

 

[BeoBill]

I wonder how much Sgt. Knaub has to do with setting the agenda?

And are meeting minutes published anywhere?

Enquiring minds want to know...

 

[montoya32]

True but having been a native Marylander born and bred I think my interpretation is pretty safe on the way they think. Again, I did what I thought I had to do when my kids were small...... I got lucky and got away with it.

I understand. I would just like a definitive set of guidelines or no restrictions. The gray areas are what cause us all time and money. They think they are creating some sort of public safety by adding restrictions, but they are causing more confusion and liability by doing so. It will all work out in the end, I am sure. I'll just keep pushing like I have and be as big a pain as I need to be.

 

[BlackBart]

I understand. I would just like a definitive set of guidelines or no restrictions. The gray areas are what cause us all time and money. They think they are creating some sort of public safety by adding restrictions, but they are causing more confusion and liability by doing so. It will all work out in the end, I am sure. I'll just keep pushing like I have and be as big a pain as I need to be.

It being ambiguous is THEIR "Catch 22". Can you prove you were going to show a property when you stopped for gas............ "Catch 22".

 

[Schipperke]

I really don't get stopped or approached by police chronically, maybe some do. If you have a carry permit, you are under no obligation in Maryland of informing you are carrying. Now tell me what the odds are an officer is ever going to know unless you use it? Have an excuse why you were carrying ready after you shoot someone I guess. As a realtor just have the address of a home with a lockbox in your head, you were going to inspect.

 

[Mark75H]

Have a legal explanation offered by your attorney , not an excuse offered during the incident

 

[ras_oscar]

1. Police most likely are more attuned to identify persons carrying than the average Joe. You should assume if you walk past an officer they will know you are carrying.

2. Scholarly question: if one is carrying on a CCW with listed restrictions, is the burden of proof to demonstrate compliance with restrictions on the state or the CCW holder?

 

[LoneRanger]

Again, your interpretation, my interpretation, an officer's interpretation and a judges interpretation may all be different.

Without a doubt....as would the members of a jury have a different interpretation....

Hypothetically speaking, based on your restrictions, if you had to use your sidearm to defend yourself from an attacker while showing a home.....I would have no problem finding you innocent...

If you had to use it while pumping gas at the WaWa or while walking your dog...you might not get so lucky.....

Restrictions should be black and white.......

 

[Abacab]

1. Police most likely are more attuned to identify persons carrying than the average Joe. You should assume if you walk past an officer they will know you are carrying.

2. Scholarly question: if one is carrying on a CCW with listed restrictions, is the burden of proof to demonstrate compliance with restrictions on the state or the CCW holder?

Really? More attuned? I've walked past plenty and no one ever blinked.

 

[NateIU10]

I have my interview tomorrow as an employee. I have suggested restriction language in my application.