Carrying on your property

[mxrider]

Over the last 6 months or so, I have begun carrying my holstered firearm while on my property while cutting grass, pulling weeds etc. I have had some wonderful conversations with neighbors while they are out walking their dog or other activity. This got me to thinking about how I would love to be able to walk the community doing the same thing and never thought further due to MD laws.

Last night I had kind of a lightbulb that went off. I live in a private condominium association in which all unit owners own all property. This means that I own 1/228 of all sidewalks, roads etc. To me, that SHOULD mean that I can carry anywhere in the community.

Can anyone point to where I might be missing something on this? And yes, I know that I need to contact an attorney before formally moving forward, but I figured that someone might be able to shoot this down by knowing the laws a little better than myself.

 

[Mr H]

Over the last 6 months or so, I have begun carrying my holstered firearm while on my property while cutting grass, pulling weeds etc. I have had some wonderful conversations with neighbors while they are out walking their dog or other activity. This got me to thinking about how I would love to be able to walk the community doing the same thing and never thought further due to MD laws.

Last night I had kind of a lightbulb that went off. I live in a private condominium association in which all unit owners own all property. This means that I own 1/228 of all sidewalks, roads etc. To me, that SHOULD mean that I can carry anywhere in the community.

Can anyone point to where I might be missing something on this? And yes, I know that I need to contact an attorney before formally moving forward, but I figured that someone might be able to shoot this down by knowing the laws a little better than myself.

I have a memory from a couple years back, where there was a decision that any "common" areas would be off-limits.

In that context, it may be that you are outnumbered 227:1

IANAL

 

[protegeV]

I wouldn't chance it. Doesn't sound kosher to me, at least not in this state.

 

[Andrew White]

Yeah, carry on your property...but that's as far as I'd go.

Not a bad idea either, last summer there were reports of guys walking up to folks in their yard or garage, acting like solicitors or what have you...and then pulling a weapon and robbing them.

Most crime prevention/ home protection videos and books talk about it being a good idea to carry in your home...takes only a few seconds for some a$$hole to kick your door in, you don't want to be fumbling around looking for your weapon with some meth head coming into your house.

 

[swinokur]

You can carry on your 1/228. I wouldn't try it elsewhere with having a lawyer on retainer however.

 

[Mr H]

I am fully in favor of everyone who is comfortable in carrying (and not prohibited), to go ahead and carry on your own property.

It's the easiest thing we can do to A) protect our homes and families, B) educate others about the state of our Rights, and C) demystify the public to the carry of firearms in public.

 

[lx1x]

three letters...

h
o
a

i wouldnt carry in common grounds..

 

[TxAggie]

I am fully in favor of everyone who is comfortable in carrying (and not prohibited), to go ahead and carry on your own property.



It's the easiest thing we can do to A) protect our homes and families, B) educate others about the state of our Rights, and C) demystify the public to the carry of firearms in public.

I've been thinking about something along these same lines the past few days. In that light, I have a question for the knowledgeable ones out there: is it legal, in MD, to CC a blue practice gun? Or even OC? I have my Utah license, but obviously can't use it in MD, but I would like to become accustomed to carrying on a more regular basis so I have a better idea of clothing fit and familiarity.

OC I'm interested in purely for the sake of civil protest and desensitization campaign.

Thoughts?

 

[protegeV]

I must say I did this one time when I had someone come to my house to sell them some car parts. I had to run around to the outside basement door. When I came back, for some unrelated reason, there were two cops staked out two doors down. That was a major throat meet stomach moment. I ran in the house and put it away. Wish I had more confidence in my rights

 

[Mr H]

I've been thinking about something along these same lines the past few days. In that light, I have a question for the knowledgeable ones out there: is it legal, in MD, to CC a blue practice gun? Or even OC? I have my Utah license, but obviously can't use it in MD, but I would like to become accustomed to carrying on a more regular basis so I have a better idea of clothing fit and familiarity.

OC I'm interested in purely for the sake of civil protest and desensitization campaign.

Thoughts?

I don't have a good answer on that at this point, so I will decline to comment.

But PM inbound

 

[vgplayer]

I CC most of the time on my property. No one has noticed and I don't think most of the neighborhood would object to it anyways.

Sometimes my neighbor will ask me to come over to talk or look at something. I usually keep it on because I'm not thinking about it. Now open carrying I would probably have to put it away. If a cop drives by he may ask questions and I'm not on my property. I don't think my designated collectors will help. And even if the owner gives me permission there are MD transportation laws to worry about.

 

[vgplayer]

I too would be interested in the OC blue trainer. While I prefer CC it would be a good way to get people talking about the stupid good and substantial reason.

 

[Brooklyn]

Over the last 6 months or so, I have begun carrying my holstered firearm while on my property while cutting grass, pulling weeds etc. I have had some wonderful conversations with neighbors while they are out walking their dog or other activity. This got me to thinking about how I would love to be able to walk the community doing the same thing and never thought further due to MD laws.

Last night I had kind of a lightbulb that went off. I live in a private condominium association in which all unit owners own all property. This means that I own 1/228 of all sidewalks, roads etc. To me, that SHOULD mean that I can carry anywhere in the community.

Can anyone point to where I might be missing something on this? And yes, I know that I need to contact an attorney before formally moving forward, but I figured that someone might be able to shoot this down by knowing the laws a little better than myself.

OK you Need to talk to a lawyer.. bring your honeiwners contract. My gut says this is mostly a private contract issue. Find out.

Now if it were me, and I know we don't see eye to eye on this, I would then quietly sound out your niehbors ... I would take about general security first. Lighting alarms... community watch 911 response times... see how they respond. Maybe set up a Saftey committee get a liaison with the local police. Get support ...


Then you can bring a proposal to the board of your home owners assoc...and if turned down... you will be in a position to challenge them for thier seats.


Done right this has the potential to reach a lot of fence sitters... I think its a good idea to pursue.. slowly.


Now I am a renter. But I am starting the same sort of " be safe " conversation with some of my neighbors...

 

[moojersey]

Just OC a water pistol. It will get the point across and there will be no question as far as the legality of it. They might be able to get you for causing an alarm or disturbing the peace with the training pistol. I would carry literature / small cards as well when doing this - that have info on the current communist state of MD law.

 

[moojersey]

Also, I would be purposeful as far as when / where I did it. Have a purpose. That always goes over better with the fuzz. If you are demonstrating / educating then be able to prove without a doubt that is your purpose at the time.

 

[Mr H]

OK you Need to talk to a lawyer.. bring your honeiwners contract. My gut says this is mostly a private contract issue. Find out.

Now if it were me, and I know we don't see eye to eye on this, I would then quietly sound out your niehbors ... I would take about general security first. Lighting alarms... community watch 911 response times... see how they respond. Maybe set up a Saftey committee get a liaison with the local police. Get support ...


Then you can bring a proposal to the board of your home owners assoc...and if turned down... you will be in a position to challenge them for thier seats.


Done right this has the potential to reach a lot of fence sitters... I think its a good idea to pursue.. slowly.


Now I am a renter. But I am starting the same sort of " be safe " conversation with some of my neighbors...

Good points... I was hoping someone would bring up that aspect.

 

[swinokur]

Don't use a super soaker. Banned under 281.

 

[CypherPunk]

As I recall there is some recent MD case law against open carry on HOA or property in which you have a shared interest.

As some property ends, and HOA property begins, about 4 steps outside one's front door (i.e. a townhouse) the right challenge might make for an interesting test case. Remember the Supreme Court says the RKBA extends outside the front door, but how far is yet to be determined.

As for blue guns, they should probably only be utilized for close quarters combat practice and displaying & selling accessories. For everything else, leave them at home.

 

[esqappellate]

Over the last 6 months or so, I have begun carrying my holstered firearm while on my property while cutting grass, pulling weeds etc. I have had some wonderful conversations with neighbors while they are out walking their dog or other activity. This got me to thinking about how I would love to be able to walk the community doing the same thing and never thought further due to MD laws.

Last night I had kind of a lightbulb that went off. I live in a private condominium association in which all unit owners own all property. This means that I own 1/228 of all sidewalks, roads etc. To me, that SHOULD mean that I can carry anywhere in the community.

Can anyone point to where I might be missing something on this? And yes, I know that I need to contact an attorney before formally moving forward, but I figured that someone might be able to shoot this down by knowing the laws a little better than myself.

I don't tell folks what to do here, but honestly, *I* would not tempt fate here.
Here is the law on carrying in Maryland in 4-203 of the Criminal Article. You start out with a general provision flatly banning carrying in (a)(1)

a)(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

Then you go to subsection (b) for the exceptions. As pertinent here, the exceptions are in (b)(6):
(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

Do you own and lease the common areas? Not really. In all likelihood, your homeowners' association owns or leases the common areas and makes it available to all members of the association. Have your lawyer check these real estate deeds. More importantly, do you really want to be a test case where, if you are wrong and are convicted, you could face a 3 year prison term and a lifetime federal firearms disability (own or possess), regardless of the actual sentence received?

 

[mxrider]

As I recall there is some recent MD case law against open carry on HOA or property in which you have a shared interest.

As some property ends, and HOA property begins, about 4 steps outside one's front door (i.e. a townhouse) the right challenge might make for an interesting test case. Remember the Supreme Court says the RKBA extends outside the front door, but how far is yet to be determined.

Time to do some searching

I don't tell folks what to do here, but honestly, *I* would not tempt fate here.
Here is the law on carrying in Maryland in 4-203 of the Criminal Article. You start out with a general provision flatly banning carrying in (a)(1)

a)(1) Except as provided in subsection (b) of this section, a person may not:
(i) wear, carry, or transport a handgun, whether concealed or open, on or about the person;

Then you go to subsection (b) for the exceptions. As pertinent here, the exceptions are in (b)(6):
(6) the wearing, carrying, or transporting of a handgun by a person on real estate that the person owns or leases or where the person resides or within the confines of a business establishment that the person owns or leases;

Do you own and lease the common areas? Not really. In all likelihood, your homeowners' association owns or leases the common areas and makes it available to all members of the association. Have your lawyer check these real estate deeds. More importantly, do you really want to be a test case where, if you are wrong and are convicted, you could face a 3 year prison term and a lifetime federal firearms disability (own or possess), regardless of the actual sentence received?

All valid points. Our Condominium association does own the property, and we members of that association are actual owners through it. I point this out by means that we recently tried to designate parking spots and our attorney informed us that we can't due to the fact that each person owns all common areas jointly. This is what got me thinking of the whole idea.

For those that are suggesting taking it to the BOD, I happen to be the president of it and have at least 2 other members that I believe would be on my side of this. It may be something that we can actually put into our rules.