Of all the modern handguns, why trust your life with a 1911?

[Second Amendment]

I never understood what "limp wristing", "extractor tuning", "failure to return to battery" or a 250 round "break in period" were until I bought a 1911. My other pistols had no issues like these.

Did the toes come with the gun?

 

[davsco]

i had a Wilson tactical elite and now have a Wilson cqb elite, but a glock (currently the 31) has been my bedside gun. the glocks have more capacity and I am 100% sure they will run perfectly. 1911's have less capacity and I'm almost 100% sure the ones I have will run perfectly.

for concealed carry I do either the glock 32 or 23. though I am very tempted by the ed brown kobra carry lightweight.

 

[501st]

I have a 1911 made by Sig. It is a GSR TTT Revolution. Got it 8 years ago pretty as hell and is more accurate than I can shoot. But having read and seen some going south on its shooter, makes me really question the reliability of 1911. I've heard heard from credible people who have taken combat pistol course where they shoot 1200 to 1800 rounds in two to three days, I keep hearing horror stories of Kimbers and a few custom 1911 malfunctioning.

Add this to my own lack of competence with changing out springs, replacing extractors and firing pins, I have an insecurity with 1911. So personally I feel modern handguns would be the best option for me. I also believe that 1911s are inherently finicky and sensitive to alot of factors that would not ordinarily affect pistols like Glocks, Sig P series or HKs.

So, if given a choice between a 1911 and a Sig or HK, which would you trust your life on? Out of the box?

Yes, totally unreliable. (and in 9mm at that)

http://pistol-training.com/archives/8839

 

[cantstop]

Did the toes come with the gun?

It's a C&R thing

 

[Traveler]

I have bought a couple of Glocks, Gen3 and Gen4, and a Sig SP2022 over the last two years.

Several hundred rounds through each. All flawless.

I guess I got the ones out of the right factory. Either that, or there is a lot of generalization over some issues that are now resolved. I would like to see some hard data by year.

 

[ccarson]

Smith & Wesson 627 Pro

 

[amoebicmagician]

Okay, here's the deal:

A true 1911, made to military spec, works great, and is exceedingly reliable.

As long as you don't do things that don't need doing, making the extractor external, monkeying with the guide rod length, putting in proprietary recoil spring assembly (I'm looking at YOU KIMBER!), or monkeying with the tolerances in pursuit of that extra 1/4 inch of group size, the 1911 is an EXCEEDINGLY reliable platform.

The horror stories you always see are with 1911s that have had their tolerances tightened up into the custom category, the fact of the matter is that the more tight the tolerances, the more finicky the weapon, as is seen in the AR vs AK debate that we see on the forums all the time. To pick up reliability, you have to trade a little accuracy. Go for that match grade barrel, you may have some issues with feeding, and it's going to be fewer rounds you can go between cleanings before you start to see sticky extraction- make the slide to barrel to frame ratios so tight that you actually require custom sanding and fitting in order to make the thing work, and you leave yourself open to a thousandth of an inch of primer residue throwing the whole system out of whack.

I don't know why people think that just because something costs more, it is better in every conceivable way. There are a lot of factors that can drive up cost. hand fitting is one of them.

Sigs can be finicky too due to their tight fit and tolerances, as well as their full length slide rails, but generally once you get one working correctly, it will continue to work quite well from that point on, and in my experience it has been a matter of the the metal surfaces rubbing each other into a smooth working relationship, so that after the first hundred or so rounds they generally are good to go.

Of your choices mentioned, I'd go with the H&K.

I love 1911s, and they ARE RELIABLE ENOUGH TO STAKE YOUR LIFE ON in their original configuration. However, although it is not my favorite handgun (it's close though, top 3 for sure) my H&K USP .45 is one of my most reliable handguns. I say one of because I have several handguns that have never hiccuped, not even once, in all the rounds fired through them. The USP is accurate, smooth to shoot, and well thought out to an incredible degree. Whether I ride the slide home or let it spring forward under spring tension, it will ALWAYS chamber a round, no matter what the configuration of the projectile, so long as it is somewhere near spec. It will also fire reliably while dirty as hell. A friend of mine who shall remain nameless, who I've bought several firearms from, has the idea that cleaning his guns mean never disassembling them, and squirting some breakfree CLP into the bore and onto the gun periodically, without scrubbing or swabbing the bore. He was the USPs former owner, and when I got the gun it was incredibly fouled. The whole reason I decided to buy the gun, however, was that through all the range trips that gun made an appearance on, it ran flawlessly and accurately, even with a visible crust of fouling in the barrel.

Bottom line is go with what you're comfortable with. Personally, I feel custom 1911s are for shooting tight groups at the range, not defending my life.

As for glocks, I've had extremely good luck with them, and found them to be accurate and very reliable.

I have, however seen some lemons get through, RARELY. Can't say the same for H&K

 

[ma_deuce]

Re external extractors, not all are sh_t. I got talked into buying a S&W E-Series, and it's been dead reliable with hollow points or ball. The most reliable 1911 I ever shot except the one my old man carried in the Army, and considerably more accurate. I'm also fond of Springfields, but the ones I've had have all needed some tweeking.

 

[501st]

Re external extractors, not all are sh_t. I got talked into buying a S&W E-Series, and it's been dead reliable with hollow points or ball. The most reliable 1911 I ever shot except the one my old man carried in the Army, and considerably more accurate. I'm also fond of Springfields, but the ones I've had have all needed some tweeking.

Out of curiosity were any of the ones you owned NM prefixed? Or higher end models? (TRP/Trophy Match)

 

[august1410]

Mine's a Colt.
It's all I've got.
It works.

That's good enough for me.

 

[browning guy]

Okay, here's the deal:

A true 1911, made to military spec, works great, and is exceedingly reliable.

As long as you don't do things that don't need doing, making the extractor external, monkeying with the guide rod length, putting in proprietary recoil spring assembly (I'm looking at YOU KIMBER!), or monkeying with the tolerances in pursuit of that extra 1/4 inch of group size, the 1911 is an EXCEEDINGLY reliable platform.

The horror stories you always see are with 1911s that have had their tolerances tightened up into the custom category, the fact of the matter is that the more tight the tolerances, the more finicky the weapon, as is seen in the AR vs AK debate that we see on the forums all the time. To pick up reliability, you have to trade a little accuracy. Go for that match grade barrel, you may have some issues with feeding, and it's going to be fewer rounds you can go between cleanings before you start to see sticky extraction- make the slide to barrel to frame ratios so tight that you actually require custom sanding and fitting in order to make the thing work, and you leave yourself open to a thousandth of an inch of primer residue throwing the whole system out of whack.

I don't know why people think that just because something costs more, it is better in every conceivable way. There are a lot of factors that can drive up cost. hand fitting is one of them.

Sigs can be finicky too due to their tight fit and tolerances, as well as their full length slide rails, but generally once you get one working correctly, it will continue to work quite well from that point on, and in my experience it has been a matter of the the metal surfaces rubbing each other into a smooth working relationship, so that after the first hundred or so rounds they generally are good to go.

Of your choices mentioned, I'd go with the H&K.

I love 1911s, and they ARE RELIABLE ENOUGH TO STAKE YOUR LIFE ON in their original configuration. However, although it is not my favorite handgun (it's close though, top 3 for sure) my H&K USP .45 is one of my most reliable handguns. I say one of because I have several handguns that have never hiccuped, not even once, in all the rounds fired through them. The USP is accurate, smooth to shoot, and well thought out to an incredible degree. Whether I ride the slide home or let it spring forward under spring tension, it will ALWAYS chamber a round, no matter what the configuration of the projectile, so long as it is somewhere near spec. It will also fire reliably while dirty as hell. A friend of mine who shall remain nameless, who I've bought several firearms from, has the idea that cleaning his guns mean never disassembling them, and squirting some breakfree CLP into the bore and onto the gun periodically, without scrubbing or swabbing the bore. He was the USPs former owner, and when I got the gun it was incredibly fouled. The whole reason I decided to buy the gun, however, was that through all the range trips that gun made an appearance on, it ran flawlessly and accurately, even with a visible crust of fouling in the barrel.

Bottom line is go with what you're comfortable with. Personally, I feel custom 1911s are for shooting tight groups at the range, not defending my life.

As for glocks, I've had extremely good luck with them, and found them to be accurate and very reliable.

I have, however seen some lemons get through, RARELY. Can't say the same for H&K

This is a well written and and thought out response!

 

[Mega]

Love my 1911 (actually, a Colt 1991) and it has never failed me.
It isn't a 'defensive piece' per-se (I punch paper), but if called upon, I would not hesitate to press it into service.

Having said that, all of my other favorites are all chambered in 9mm, and I like them equally well.
The M&P9 is an awesome polymer rig. The Sig Mk25 has been through a defensive pistol class with me and never hiccuped.
One steel and one polymer, I trust them both.

But if they were all laid before me, and I needed *one* to save my life... it would be an IWI Baby Eagle in 9mm.
The Israelis do not build crap. Uzi, Tavor, or Eagle/Jericho... you can bet your life on all of them.

 

[Alan3413]

I've never had a 1911 that wouldn't work when I need it to.

 

[Blaster229]

Love my 1911 (actually, a Colt 1991) and it has never failed me.
It isn't a 'defensive piece' per-se (I punch paper), but if called upon, I would not hesitate to press it into service.

Having said that, all of my other favorites are all chambered in 9mm, and I like them equally well.
The M&P9 is an awesome polymer rig. The Sig Mk25 has been through a defensive pistol class with me and never hiccuped.
One steel and one polymer, I trust them both.

But if they were all laid before me, and I needed *one* to save my life... it would be an IWI Baby Eagle in 9mm.
The Israelis do not build crap. Uzi, Tavor, or Eagle/Jericho... you can bet your life on all of them.

That's why the Israelis use Glock. Lol

 

[-Z/28-]

I've only ever had failures with a 1911 when it was dirty, and I mean really really dirty. Like 500+ rounds with no cleaning dirty.

That said, I'd actually prefer an Hk45 or USP45 in a fight. Better mag capacity, lighter, and very reliable. Not to mention stupid accurate.

 

[SCARCQB]

I used to pack a 1911... It rusted and was too heavy. Found myself pulling my pants up often and i smelled like gun oil. Due to that, i switched to the Glocks. And never looked back.

I do love 1911s. they shoot really well if they are built right. But they are big, heavy and requires a bit more training to master. Most are too expensive to live in a sweat saturated IWB holster.

However, my nightstand gun is still a 1911. in fact, its a Kimber TL RLII. If it didnt rust or weigh too much, it would be my carry piece.

 

[Respen33]

I think the 1911 is the must buy for all handgun shooters. It's a look back at the platform which truly brought on a revolution.

That said and all above read I will always go to a polymer for CC or side carry. I prefer my Springfield xD 4" service for that function. Others love glock. Some like smith and Wesson.

Essentially of the police issue it as their sidearm of choice maybe you should be looking there as well?

 

[Mega]

That's why the Israelis use Glock. Lol

In your dreams.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Because my Grandfather did on Guam, Bouganville, and Iwo Jima.


That's why.

 

[Gryphon]

I have nowhere near the experience of many of the above posters, but I have owned a couple 1911's over the last 15 years. For example, I had a Kimber target model that was expensive and that was fun to shoot, and that I don't recall ever failing to do anything it was designed for over 10 years. But I would have never carried it - that's not what it was intended for. So when I stopped shooting it in favor of other newer purchases and started leaning toward carry options I decided to sell it. It was scarfed up in a NY minute by a friend. He loves it.

After only a few months I was having sellers remorse. Not because I had sold the Kimber but because I had thinned my heard and it no longer included a 1911. I had other 1911 "style" handguns and other .45's but no actual 1911. It really bothered me because I loved the fit in my hand, the consistent single action trigger, the cartridge, etc. So I bought a Remington R1 Carry Commander, and oh Lord, if I really liked the Kimber I love the R1. It has been flawless, and dehorned it carrys just fine even IWB.

I have several other carry options including West German Sig, NH Sig (I love Sigs), XDs, Beretta, tried and true wheels guns, etc. all of which are reliable and each of which has certain desirable attributes, but for me none of them combine all of their attributes into a collective system as well as a good quality 1911. My P228 is close, but its wide and just as heavy when loaded with 16 rounds. Its a great OWB option, but that just isn't practical most of the time. The 1911 is relatively thin. The R1 Commander gets a demerit for weight (not size), but for reliability, accuracy, consistent trigger, fire power, capacity, and a great feel in my hand I think its the best overall option.

Does that mean its what I will always carry when permitted? No. Because each of the others have desirable attributes, but they also have there respective trade offs.

Bottom line is that I will not cross a good quality 1911 off of my list of options just because someone else thinks its not a "modern" firearm. BTW - no I never liked Glocks. Came close to buying a 30s but opted for the XDs, and despite the recall I am quite satisfied. I can only handle so much polymer.