2A Sales-No Longer Accepting Our Transfers in Jessup

[Pstango]

I have always seen transfers as a net positive for local shops. They generate revenue from the transfer fees and they bring online customers into their stores.

I will give a personal example. I bought a Remington 700 from Bud's Gun Shop. I selected a random FFL from their list at purchase. I had never heard of the FFL before going to Buds. After ordering, I googled the local company and found that they had a website. I went to their website and saw that they took trades and sold various firearms related items and other products. So I call them and ask if they would be interested in taking a few of my old guns in on trade and they said sure bring them down and we'll take a look at what you have. They had a few interesting items in stock so I decided to go their shop. The bottom line is I ended up buying two regulated guns from them in addition to the transfer fee for the Remington 700 I bought from Buds. I will probably go back soon to buy a third regulated firearm from them.

The purchases from the local shop started with an out of state transfer. Bud's literally introduced me to the local company and directed me into their retail space. It has already led to two firearms sales, one transfer fee, and will likely lead to future firearms sales. Trying to impose local buying by refusing to take online transfers is just pissing in the wind when there are so many other FFLs happy to take the business.

Same here... Last time I walked into an IPs store for a transfer, I also added a 10/22 to my purchase as well. Not the best choice by 2A but it's there business. I won't deny anyone's right and I'll probably still shop there...

 

[bcr229]

If it was me - I would've rejected the unknown lowers but what happens next time - unknown transfers come in?

I've received plenty of firearms for transfer from JB. He doesn't send orphans - the buyer's name and contact info are clearly available on the invoice.

 

[Silence&Rage]

I've received plenty of firearms for transfer from JB. He doesn't send orphans - the buyer's name and contact info are clearly available on the invoice.

By unknown - I meant the ones he didn't know were coming not that he couldn't identify the buyer. I don't think this is JB's fault, or that he's got nefarious business practices. Sounds like the customers should have run it by 2A before shipping to them - Like the site tells them to.

 

[DoubleTap007]

I have to agree here with JoeBob, if I as a store don't have the product, then what do I care if someone purchases it elsewhere that has it, and then gives me the opportunity to get the transfer fees for it. Considering that most people charge $40+ for a transfer, when I believe the application cost is only $10, then $30 of profit for 10 minutes of work seems like a great way to make money.

 

[fleaman64]

That is a business decision 2A has a right to make. That being said, as others have noted there are plenty of FFLs who will handle the transfer so I suppose that is lost revenue for Mark. So be it it's a principled stand and I can respect that.

However, in the bigger picture of "customer service", the question I have is if the LGS does not have something in stock why would anyone have heart burn about a transfer from any retailer, internet or not? If the guns people wanted were in plentiful supply at the LGS I would agree with 2A's tact, but they aren't so, we have to get 'em where we find 'em.

Oh well, since we are waiting 40+ days for a 7 day wait with MSP, we, the consumer will ultimately do what we have to do to avoid all the BS in case the abomination of gun laws gets passed in the Socialist Republic of Maryland!

 

[TxAggie]

At the top of every dealer locator search (Prior to any results being listed) this image appears:

Ultimately it is up to the customer to arrange the transfer and ensure they are complying with the receiving dealers policies. Sometimes dealers will piss eachother off for one reason or another. Some dealers don't like customers to get tracking information, or would prefer to get it themselves, etc. Every receiving and selling dealer is different though.

Example: A week or two back a different FFL in MD called us up regarding an issue they had with the way we were printing their FFL license # on invoices. While we really didn't see the issue, we still complied as to make nice with another dealer. They want things done a certain way, and if we can oblige then we will.

Ultimately we want customers to be happy with a transfer, as it is a big part of the buying experience. We try to do our part. In this case we were not contacted regarding the issue and given the chance to remedy it prior to customers being penalized. If a dealer wishes something to change, one most ask.

Know what, I'm calling BS on this the more I hear from you. You don't have to worry because once it leaves your wear house, it's up to the FFL you sent it to and you wash your hands of it. YOU should have the common courtesy to inform the FFL of an inbound package, because as you say "We want our customers to be happy with their transfer" then you would do more than just putting it on a truck and saying "bye bye"

Your example about the form proves my point, if you had contacted the MD FFL you cited prior to the shipment, it would have saved extra work for both of you.

Maybe this is an isolated incident on your part, but the way you handled the entire (minor) situation has not earn my respect or business.

 

[JoeBobOutfitters.com]

Know what, I'm calling BS on this the more I hear from you. You don't have to worry because once it leaves your wear house, it's up to the FFL you sent it to and you wash your hands of it. YOU should have the common courtesy to inform the FFL of an inbound package, because as you say "We want our customers to be happy with their transfer" then you would do more than just putting it on a truck and saying "bye bye"

Your example about the form proves my point, if you had contacted the MD FFL you cited prior to the shipment, it would have saved extra work for both of you.

Maybe this is an isolated incident on your part, but the way you handled the entire (minor) situation has not earn my respect or business.

You are more than entitled to your opinion, but the fact of the matter is you aren't really aware of how a transfer occurs from a dealer's perspective at all.

The CUSTOMER is to be in contact with the FFL, as they are the ones doing business with the dealer. We are simply transferring a firearm to their location, but no money transfers hands between dealers. They are not a customer of ours, and we are not a customer of theirs.

Dealers RARELY will call another dealer and ask about a shipment. Dealers will also RARELY send tracking updates to another dealer, as they have sold a product to the customer, not the dealer. The customer should be in contact with both dealers to facilitate the transfer. Typically dealers only contact each-other if there is an issue such as a damaged product or an incorrect serial #. The customer requests information to be submitted between parties, as it insures the dealer knows who he is dealing with.

Unless a dealer explicitly works out an arrangement with a shipping dealer to pre-aprove customers, it won't ever happen that way. While in theory it might be nice for dealers to OK each transfer verbally with the dealer, it simply is too much hassle to mess with.

EFI LLC (Screen Name:bcr229, above) is a prime example. They submitted their FFL to us, and leave it on file. They have no special instructions. They know we send proper paperwork with each firearm. There is no need for us to contact them for every single transfer transfer, as the customer should have already worked out the details with them. If we did, it would just waste both of our time's. Extrapolate that over thousands of firearms a month, and your efficiency and speed in which you can ship goes down the crapper. Likewise, we wouldn't care of they sent us a firearm since they have a signed copy of our license on file.

We had never heard of any issues until we received notice from one of our Customers. Any complaints should have come from the dealer, and been worked out amicably.

We know another "Internet Clearinghouse" who shipped a handful of lowers to 2A Sales within the last few weeks, and none of the additional transfers were approved, denied, or otherwise. No complaints against them either?

It's NORMAL, and PREFERRED by most dealers to have passive transfers. Typically they will make a tiered transfer fee system if someone doesn't contact them ahead of time, which is fair. I don't want to fax a copy of our FFL every single time a customer orders from Bud's Gunshop, and likewise, most dealers don't want to fax us redundant copies every time either.

Dealers typically work much better together than is seen here. Both have mutual customers that they can both make a profit on. Not exactly something worth canceling a business relationship over, no?

 

[HollowPoint]

hmmmmmm ..... sad thread!

Another anti win. Dealers and FFL's at each other via the buyer & transfers.

Under pressure! (sigh)

 

[Justin B.C.]

I appreciate the deals Joe Bob's offers MDShooters folks. 'Nuff said for me.

 

[Bigpapa]

Know what, I'm calling BS on this the more I hear from you. You don't have to worry because once it leaves your wear house, it's up to the FFL you sent it to and you wash your hands of it. YOU should have the common courtesy to inform the FFL of an inbound package, because as you say "We want our customers to be happy with their transfer" then you would do more than just putting it on a truck and saying "bye bye"

Your example about the form proves my point, if you had contacted the MD FFL you cited prior to the shipment, it would have saved extra work for both of you.

Maybe this is an isolated incident on your part, but the way you handled the entire (minor) situation has not earn my respect or business.

You already said you probably would not be giving JBO your business but you speak as you have a dog in the fight. If you don't want to buy from him don't! To call his side of the situation BS sounds smug and biased...you made your point now move on.

 

[TxAggie]

You already said you probably would not be giving JBO your business but you speak as you have a dog in the fight. If you don't want to buy from him don't! To call his side of the situation BS sounds smug and biased...you made your point now move on.

Biased, yes. Everyone has biases and if they say they don't then they are lying.

Smug? No more so than you.

The "dog" I have in the fight is common courtesy. JB probably could have easily avoided this if they had picked up the phone. How would you like it if you agreed to dog sit for a friend for a month. You get home and in your backyard, instead if the one Bassett hound you were expecting, there were also a Doberman, Rottweiler and a German Shepard. They all have tags, but you've never met any if the owners.

Have fun with them.

 

[zmayhem]

I appreciate the deals Joe Bob's offers MDShooters folks. 'Nuff said for me.

^This. Have ordered a good bit of products from Joe Bob's and have never had a bad experience. Also as a few people have mentioned, The Gun Shop in Essex is awesome, and is the first place I would go to for a purchase or transfer. Best prices I have been able to find on either, and all of the people who work there are great to deal with. All that said, between this thread and the other thread about 2A jacking their prices up on transfers, I will never be a customer of theirs. Everybody is free to support whatever businesses they would like to, and everybody who is a member of MDshooters is able to exercise their right to free speech. I am glad that this thread was created and the OP spoke his mind. I think the reasoning from Mark was ********, and am glad it was presented. There are two sides to a story, i've heard both and lean towards Joe Bob's. Thank you for the deals that you continue to offer us here at mdshooters Joe Bob's, look forward to purchasing from you for many years to come.

 

[JoeBobOutfitters.com]

The "dog" I have in the fight is common courtesy. JB probably could have easily avoided this if they had picked up the phone.

Why would we have picked up the phone if we were under the impression that we had their FFL on file and that customers had already contacted 2A so everything was hunky dory? We send out tens of thousands of firearms a year, and like most dealers, we do not contact the receiving dealer FIRST. We were not made aware they needed any special requirements recently. If there was a note on the original paperwork submitted that was accidentally overlooked, then they should have contacted us to ensure we understood their position.

We picked up the phone yesterday when we found out the customer said there was an issue with the transfer. Upon talking to the dealer, we found out we were no longer welcome due to being an "Internet Clearinghouse". That's not exactly working together. We tried to remedy the situation, and hit a stone wall. A customer made a mistake in the recent history about not contacting them ahead of time (which is against both of our store's typical business model), and apparently they threw out the FFL with the bathwater rather than working towards an amicable scenario for ongoing transfers. That doesn't help any MD firearm owners. We're not going to reason with "We don't like you" and beg for a dealer to do transfers.

 

[Bigpapa]

Biased, yes. Everyone has biases and if they say they don't then they are lying.

Smug? No more so than you.

The "dog" I have in the fight is common courtesy. JB probably could have easily avoided this if they had picked up the phone. How would you like it if you agreed to dog sit for a friend for a month. You get home and in your backyard, instead if the one Bassett hound you were expecting, there were also a Doberman, Rottweiler and a German Shepard. They all have tags, but you've never met any if the owners.

Have fun with them.

Your problem is your talking more than your listening. JBO has tried to explain this to you but for some reason your more concerned with your agenda!

 

[TxAggie]

You are more than entitled to your opinion, but the fact of the matter is you aren't really aware of how a transfer occurs from a dealer's perspective at all.

The CUSTOMER is to be in contact with the FFL, as they are the ones doing business with the dealer. We are simply transferring a firearm to their location, but no money transfers hands between dealers. They are not a customer of ours, and we are not a customer of theirs.

Dealers RARELY will call another dealer and ask about a shipment. Dealers will also RARELY send tracking updates to another dealer, as they have sold a product to the customer, not the dealer. The customer should be in contact with both dealers to facilitate the transfer. Typically dealers only contact each-other if there is an issue such as a damaged product or an incorrect serial #. The customer requests information to be submitted between parties, as it insures the dealer knows who he is dealing with.

Unless a dealer explicitly works out an arrangement with a shipping dealer to pre-aprove customers, it won't ever happen that way. While in theory it might be nice for dealers to OK each transfer verbally with the dealer, it simply is too much hassle to mess with.

EFI LLC (Screen Name:bcr229, above) is a prime example. They submitted their FFL to us, and leave it on file. They have no special instructions. They know we send proper paperwork with each firearm. There is no need for us to contact them for every single transfer transfer, as the customer should have already worked out the details with them. If we did, it would just waste both of our time's. Extrapolate that over thousands of firearms a month, and your efficiency and speed in which you can ship goes down the crapper. Likewise, we wouldn't care of they sent us a firearm since they have a signed copy of our license on file.

We had never heard of any issues until we received notice from one of our Customers. Any complaints should have come from the dealer, and been worked out amicably.

We know another "Internet Clearinghouse" who shipped a handful of lowers to 2A Sales within the last few weeks, and none of the additional transfers were approved, denied, or otherwise. No complaints against them either?

It's NORMAL, and PREFERRED by most dealers to have passive transfers. Typically they will make a tiered transfer fee system if someone doesn't contact them ahead of time, which is fair. I don't want to fax a copy of our FFL every single time a customer orders from Bud's Gunshop, and likewise, most dealers don't want to fax us redundant copies every time either.

Dealers typically work much better together than is seen here. Both have mutual customers that they can both make a profit on. Not exactly something worth canceling a business relationship over, no?

I never said you exchanged monies between you two, and I didn't expect you to.

Your right, I don't know the exact workings, but I do know common courtesy. Do you deny that you sent more items that what Mark approved? If so, then I guess there really is a communication problem, if you don't, then that means you consciously decided to go against the wishes they expressed with you.

As I said, you may be a perfectly nice group, and this may be an isolated incident, but to call out ANY other IP (not just 2A) like that seems rather petty and like you are the one taking your ball and going home.

Again, good luck going forward.

 

[JoeBobOutfitters.com]

I never said you exchanged monies between you two, and I didn't expect you to.

Your right, I don't know the exact workings, but I do know common courtesy. Do you deny that you sent more items that what Mark approved? If so, then I guess there really is a communication problem, if you don't, then that means you consciously decided to go against the wishes they expressed with you.

As I said, you may be a perfectly nice group, and this may be an isolated incident, but to call out ANY other IP (not just 2A) like that seems rather petty and like you are the one taking your ball and going home.

Again, good luck going forward.

We have nothing on record stating that no transfers beyond Customer X and Y were supposed to be initiated, or any other special instructions. If we overlooked them by mistake, then it should have been communicated with us about it and we'd take care of it. We're not a 1 man shop, and we move a fair amount of inventory. Anything can slip through the cracks, and we don't know if there's a problem unless someone tells us. We aren't mind readers. Common courtesy would be a dealer calling up another dealer and telling them if there is an issue...not relaying it through a customer. Then the issue gets fixed.

Typically with FFL's, once an FFL is on file (UNLESS THEY ARE EXPLICITLY TOLD OTHERWISE) the sending dealer will keep their information on file for future shipments for efficiency. Customers are expected to contact the dealer prior to transferring to be aware of any fees and processes in doing such a transfer.

Why would we knowingly piss off a dealer, and in turn cause more headaches for a customer? That sounds like a lose-lose scenario. So, no, we would not knowingly throw a customer into a situation that is not a good one. Like I already said, we will make special arrangements for FFL's if we know what they are wanting. The transfer is a big part of the firearms buying experience, so the easier the better for customers.

Over the phone, they didn't start the response with "You sent us firearms we didn't approve first". They said that as an afterthought in the conversation...after telling us they only wanted to support shops smaller than ours. Apparently business success is a bad thing?

 

[TxAggie]

Your problem is your talking more than your listening. JBO has tried to explain this to you but for some reason your more concerned with your agenda!

No agenda, quite honestly I didn't even know about them prior to their post.

It did take me a little to get caught up on their posts, and I will say that at least they addressed my comments without calling me names and remained civil, and they did give more info than their initial post which made it sound like 2A was the entire problem.

I have no ill will towards Joe Bobs, I wish them the best of business, they clearly have a good following here. You clearly like them and are defending them. I clearly like 2A and am defending them. I simply don't like how they called out 2A and you don't like that 2A said they will no longer honor their transfers.

And don't worry, I'm not offended by any of the comments. Bottom line is I think we all are passionate about the people we deal with, and we a share a common bond with MDS.

It's Friday, time for a beer.

 

[Streetgang]

As posted in the 2A thread by me.
I have a personal freind who is my FFL, and I would NEVER presume he will accept a transfer without my first asking if it's ok. It's called courtesy. If someone does something once for you, it doesn't mean it's an open invitation to expect them to do it all the time.

When it comes to FFL transfers,the buyer and the selling FFL should ALWAYS check with the FFL being saddled with the transfer first unless they have a prior agreement othewise.
Everytime I've done this in the past the selling FFL (including manufacturers) has contacted my FFL here in MD. Sorry Joe Bob. You've been a great dealer to me and I'll continue to buy from you but in this I disagree with your stance. I feel it's a courtesy to check at least the first time to see if it's ok to send unsolicited. JUst because you have an FFL's credentials on file doesn't contstitute and open letter to transfer.

 

[Bigpapa]

^^Beer..agreed^^

 

[TxAggie]

We have nothing on record stating that no transfers beyond Customer X and Y were supposed to be initiated, or any other special instructions. If we overlooked them by mistake, then it should have been communicated with us about it and we'd take care of it. We're not a 1 man shop, and we move a fair amount of inventory. Anything can slip through the cracks, and we don't know if there's a problem unless someone tells us. We aren't mind readers. Common courtesy would be a dealer calling up another dealer and telling them if there is an issue...not relaying it through a customer. Then the issue gets fixed.

Typically with FFL's, once an FFL is on file (UNLESS THEY ARE EXPLICITLY TOLD OTHERWISE) the sending dealer will keep their information on file for future shipments for efficiency. Customers are expected to contact the dealer prior to transferring to be aware of any fees and processes in doing such a transfer.

Why would we knowingly piss off a dealer, and in turn cause more headaches for a customer? That sounds like a lose-lose scenario. So, no, we would not knowingly throw a customer into a situation that is not a good one. Like I already said, we will make special arrangements for FFL's if we know what they are wanting. The transfer is a big part of the firearms buying experience, so the easier the better for customers.

Over the phone, they didn't start the response with "You sent us firearms we didn't approve first". They said that as an afterthought in the conversation...after telling us they only wanted to support shops smaller than ours. Apparently business success is a bad thing?

Thank you, and you're right that they should have called you back as well instead of going thru the customer. So if that is your stance, why air the dirty laundry on MDS.

As I replied to another's post, at least you've cleared up some things left out of your initial post, and you are doing a great deal to educate me (without being rude I might add which is even more impressive) as to how this all works.

I'm still a fan of 2A, and I honestly wish you the best.