YouTuber CRS Firearms Indicted for Violating the National Firearms Act

[bcr229]

Do we know if the defense attorney has challenged the constitutionality of the NFA in this case?

 

[lazarus]

The details are a little slim. From what I've been able to gather from John Crump's youtubes, the ATF so far as spent all their time proving uncontested facts. Not sure why they are bothering. Hoover has made some posts suggesting that he is feeling pretty confident. He should probably keep his mouth shut, though.

Something I thought was really interesting, however, was the money structuring claim. Apparently Ervin had tried to withdraw $50,000 in cash from his bank, but they said they had a limit of $10,000 without advanced notice. He took the ten grand, went to another branch and took out another ten grand. Unintentional structuring. It appears that one of the bank tellers didn't like him and contacted the ATF to report him for selling "machine guns".

$10k would still be reportable though. So I am not sure how that gets to structuring. Multiple withdrawals or transfers under $10k should be structuring transfers to avoid reporting.

To run afoul of the whole structure business with transactions, the fed has to show that you intended to structure deposits, withdrawals or transfers for the purpose of avoiding reporting. And/or in the furtherance of some other crime.

Sure you are getting charged with a crime, but it is still on the government to prove what you were doing was criminal. As it isn’t always. And rarely are people reported until the pattern gets very suspect. Very suspect.

A few transactions near reporting limits is not going to trigger the Feds to come arrest you. It might trigger then to look at what you seem to be doing and decide there does appear to be something else fishy going on. Just like transactions at the $10k reporting limit doesn’t trigger the Feds to come arrest you.

 

[babalou]

$10k would still be reportable though. So I am not sure how that gets to structuring. Multiple withdrawals or transfers under $10k should be structuring transfers to avoid reporting.

To run afoul of the whole structure business with transactions, the fed has to show that you intended to structure deposits, withdrawals or transfers for the purpose of avoiding reporting. And/or in the furtherance of some other crime.

Sure you are getting charged with a crime, but it is still on the government to prove what you were doing was criminal. As it isn’t always. And rarely are people reported until the pattern gets very suspect. Very suspect.

A few transactions near reporting limits is not going to trigger the Feds to come arrest you. It might trigger then to look at what you seem to be doing and decide there does appear to be something else fishy going on. Just like transactions at the $10k reporting limit doesn’t trigger the Feds to come arrest you.

agreed.. I remember reading here on MDS or somewhere of a small business who would make deposits of a little less than $10k a few times a week. They were a small food place and that is what they deposited. The bank or someone thought they were trying to keep under the $10k rule nd reported them. Their assets were frozen for a while. I swear I read it on MDS

 

[Crazytrain]

Do we know if the defense attorney has challenged the constitutionality of the NFA in this case?

Haven't heard as yet. The only one I know reporting this is John crump. Near as I can tell, so far the government has been prosecuting by proving facts not in dispute. I don't think the defense has had their turn. Info is slim. Hoover seems confident.

 

[Squirrel Hunter]

Don't know anything about this guy but this video popped up on my feed.

 

[adit]

The live stream going on now.

 

[Crazytrain]

Matt Hoover (CRS) guilty of five of eight charges. Remanded until sentencing on July 31 because the prosecutor feels threatened. One count of conspiracy (for opening a go fund me?). Four of transferring machine guns, apparently because he advertised (but did not sell or ship) the auto key cards.

Ervin guilty of all charges. Conspiracy. Transferring machine guns. Money structuring.

Every single charge seems suspect at best.

 

[Crazytrain]

Duck the AFT

 

[smokey]

So sharing an image of one of these now means you're transferring machine guns? Pictures are now machine guns?

 

[Crazytrain]

View attachment 410615

So sharing an image of one of these now means you're transferring machine guns? Pictures are now machine guns?

Imma gonna report you you felon!

 

[pbharvey]

The ATF also admitted that the Bureau assigned twelve agents to collect Autokey Cards from the public before being told to stop by their higher-ups, who thought it was a waste of money. The ATF employees also admitted to taking classes on convincing a jury of their testimony.

Hoover was remanded into custody because the federal prosecutor stated she felt personally “threatened” by Mr. Hoover. Ervin has been in federal custody for the last two years and will remain in custody.

 

[Crazytrain]

Should be thrown out on first amendment and second amendment grounds. Maybe more.

The conspiracy charge being based on setting up a defense is insane. I guess it's illegal to defend yourself in court.

The structuring charge was only because the bank wouldn't let Ervin take out more than $10,000 at a time.

A printed item, not scored, not popped out, and not functional, cannot possibly be a machine gun. It's absurd.

I started to think how some states are trying to go after gun manufacturers for their advertising. If talking about an item is a crime, we are all at risk.

These two gentlemen poked the bear, and the bear was not amused. But this does not sound just.

 

[Slowhand]

View attachment 410615

So sharing an image of one of these now means you're transferring machine guns? Pictures are now machine guns?

Will these pictures work in a picture of a Sig MPX? Asking for a picture of a friend.

 

[csanc123]

Abuse of power (by the government). So ridiculous.

 

[smokey]

Will these pictures work in a picture of a Sig MPX? Asking for a picture of a friend.

Next they'll probably consider this image a "ghost gun" because they'll claim its readily convertible into a firearm if you happen to have 3/4" schedule 80 pipe, 1" schedule 40 pipe, a 1" endcap, a wooden dowel and nail.

 

[smdub]

Will these pictures work in a picture of a Sig MPX? Asking for a picture of a friend.

No. Only works with pictures of conventional ARs that have pictures of FA bolt carriers.

 

[lazarus]

I am wondering what the point is on the first part? Most government employees are coached prior to testimony. Most good lawyers coach witnesses. Most agencies have large enough litigation exposure, as well as large enough staff attorney departments to have formalized classes for those giving testimony.

The point of a prosecutors case is convincing a jury the defendant is guilty. And the point of the defense is to convince them the defendant is innocent. So long as evidence isn't being withheld, or anyone lying, then nothing funny is going on.

 

[lazarus]

Should be thrown out on first amendment and second amendment grounds. Maybe more.

The conspiracy charge being based on setting up a defense is insane. I guess it's illegal to defend yourself in court.

The structuring charge was only because the bank wouldn't let Ervin take out more than $10,000 at a time.

A printed item, not scored, not popped out, and not functional, cannot possibly be a machine gun. It's absurd.

I started to think how some states are trying to go after gun manufacturers for their advertising. If talking about an item is a crime, we are all at risk.

These two gentlemen poked the bear, and the bear was not amused. But this does not sound just.

"He ****** around and found out. This is not just!"

I mean, the underlying principle of Hughs and NFA I have a problem with. But he knew he was poking the bear. Is it a surprise when one's arm gets bitten off? Hey, it would have been nice if he was found innocent. But when you F around pushing the boundaries and poking the government in the eye, sometimes said government comes down on your like a ton of bricks.

He didn't simply have instructions he gave out. The government's contention was by offering the steel cards with the printed cut/machine lines on it, he was giving out machinegun parts. Jury bought it.

If he made something twice the size, or half the size, or whatever, he'd have a much stronger 1A argument.

At least for now, the Judicial system does not recognize machineguns as protected under the 2A. So he was real unlikely to win under that argument.

 

[owldo]

I can't believe a Florida jury did this ! IMO ... Overturned on appeal !

 

[Crazytrain]

"He ****** around and found out. This is not just!"

I mean, the underlying principle of Hughs and NFA I have a problem with. But he knew he was poking the bear. Is it a surprise when one's arm gets bitten off? Hey, it would have been nice if he was found innocent. But when you F around pushing the boundaries and poking the government in the eye, sometimes said government comes down on your like a ton of bricks.

He didn't simply have instructions he gave out. The government's contention was by offering the steel cards with the printed cut/machine lines on it, he was giving out machinegun parts. Jury bought it.

If he made something twice the size, or half the size, or whatever, he'd have a much stronger 1A argument.

At least for now, the Judicial system does not recognize machineguns as protected under the 2A. So he was real unlikely to win under that argument.

I'd disagree about being unlikely to win, but obviously he didn't win. But it isn't a part. Five hours of deliberations and not one juror couldn't see the ********?

And it's all ********. Frankly, we should be able to have machine guns. But in no sense of the word are these machine gun parts. Hell, when the ATF cut them out they wouldn't work as designed. They had to jam them in to get it to work as a "hammer follow" which is not to plan. It could have been almost anything jammed in there.

Poking the bear is necessary. Gotta put it in its' place. But, as the old saying goes, "sometimes you get the bear, sometimes the bear gets you."

This whole thing really pisses me off. I've been pissed off a lot lately by all the shenanigans going on. It isn't good for my health.