With OnTarget starting to releasing after 7 days now who will be next?

[notme0255]

WTF is wrong with people? I think you guys are outstanding. When I did my latest transfer through you guys, I knew the current atmosphere means I still probably have another 30-45 days on my wait. Yeah, the letter of the law says you may release after 7 days, but I never even thought you guys would risk that. I'd never expect someone to risk their business on me.

I applaud all of our IPs and stand behind their decisions to release or not release. It pisses me off that a few folks on here are trying to bully these businesses into releasing on the buyers terms!

Do you want these IPs coming into your business without all of the information and knowledge that you have and telling you how to run it? Do you want to risk your business and source of income on decisions made by politicians?

Relax people.

 

[RRHemi]

Really? Wanting goods we paid for and remaining within the law would be bad press for us? Look, I don't know how to say this but anything we do will always be spun in a negative aspect in this state because of the strength of three counties. I believe everyone posting in this topic has shown patience in waiting for their new purchases but when you have some FFLs releasing, don't be surprised when people begin to gravitate towards those FFLs because they are sick of the waiting game. Everyone keeps making the comment, "its their livelihood" and I agree but remember, that's a two way street and when customers begun hearing, which they have, that OT is releasing prior to the paperwork coming back don't be surprised if everyone begins to move to them. At the end of the week, they will have a new addition to the collection and that's all there is to it.

I have heard from more than one FFL that the MSP told them not to release guns. If someone wants to go to OT because they think they might get their stuff faster then by all means go for it. While it is in the LGS's to move product they realize that they need to survive past 10/1. Keep in mind that every day shops are having guns clear. Dealers I am working with are now charging 100% when you make purchase so they are getting paid and able to buy more stock. I heard OT was not doing this which would put them in a financial bind. Put blame on MoM, all your state and federal representatives where it belongs, not on gun shops. Write to these representatives and let yourself be heard!

 

[sleev-les]

I have the utmost respect for the decisions our IP's make. If they choose not to release, I stand behind them. If they do choose to release, I stand behind them. I have a few firearms queued up at different IP's right now. Some of which have have different views on releasing without NICS. I'm not out complaining and crying because I'm sick of waiting. We are all tired of the wait, but the pissing and moaning about the IP's is really sad. You don't have to buy guns. You choose too. You, in turn, have to deal with the outcome of those decisions to purchase. Arguing against others and businesses that should really be supporting each other is counter productive.

 

[jpo183]

I know for at least myself where I am frusterated with the IPs is this:

1)Many do not appear to even try to take a stance

2)A lot of these FFLs are part timers with little to risk to take a stance besides their hobby

3)The FFLs have an association that they can all stand unified with

4)FFLs do not even understand the law. There have been many examples posted in this thread about it.

5)The MSP/ATF have already said what the rule is, we know the rest. Heck 80% the people in this thread arent FFLs and they have done the work to figure this out

6) Even getting the MD DC cert is taking awhile, a lot of us want to get certain fire arms before Oct 1 and the MSP appears to be trying to delay the entire process to prevent this.

7) As consumers are only recourse at this time is with FFLs

 

[Blaster229]

I know for at least myself where I am frusterated with the IPs is this:

1)Many do not appear to even try to take a stance

2)A lot of these FFLs are part timers with little to risk to take a stance besides their hobby

3)The FFLs have an association that they can all stand unified with

4)FFLs do not even understand the law. There have been many examples posted in this thread about it.

5)The MSP/ATF have already said what the rule is, we know the rest. Heck 80% the people in this thread arent FFLs and they have done the work to figure this out

6) Even getting the MD DC cert is taking awhile, a lot of us want to get certain fire arms before Oct 1 and the MSP appears to be trying to delay the entire process to prevent this.

Like others have said in past posts......you go get your FFL and release to anyone you want after any time. Simple.

 

[2AHokie]

I keep seeing talk about liability of releasing early.

What terms do insurance carriers have that require dealers to follow non-existent laws in order to keep their insurance policy?

I've never seen a business liability policy myself, but I have extreme difficulty fathoming what it could possibly include that would require dealers to meet some higher standard that is not codified in state or federal law.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

So I'm supposed to be an asshat and talk bad about a company because another company is taking a risk they're unwilling to take? If you really want your stuff faster, by all means, move to OT. But don't be a dick while doing so.

And here I thought gun owners were generally more respectful than the rest of the rabble.

im not talking bad about anyone. All I am saying is that I am choosing to take my business where the purchases are released and I do not have to sit through these insane waits. Like everyone said before, its their livelihood and they can choose to run their business how they see fit. I as the consumer determine how and where I choose to spend my money. How is that being a Dick? Just because you dont agree with the fact that FFLs have the ability to release, yet choose to wait, does not make me a Dick. Its how the business world works my friends and once people identify those locations which are releasing their customer base will expand. Thats not being a Dick, thats stating the obvious. So while you wait, other will not and move FFLs and when this is all over with, however long that may be, customers will remember this time and stick with the FFLs who took care of them and accepted the risk. Big risk big reward. Thats not bashing anyone.

What led you to believe that gun owners were respectful towards everything in life? I'm not saying I have been disrespectful but this is just a silly statement based on 0 facts and only personal interpretation.

 

[MadCat0911]

im not talking bad about anyone. All I am saying is that I am choosing to take my business where the purchases are released and I do not have to sit through these insane waits. Like everyone said before, its their livelihood and they can choose to run their business how they see fit. I as the consumer determine how and where I choose to spend my money. How is that being a Dick? Just because you dont agree with the fact that FFLs have the ability to release, yet choose to wait, does not make me a Dick. Its how the business world works my friends and once people identify those locations which are releasing their customer base will expand. Thats not being a Dick, thats stating the obvious. So while you wait, other will not and move FFLs and when this is all over with, however long that may be, customers will remember this time and stick with the FFLs who took care of them and accepted the risk. Big risk big reward. Thats not bashing anyone.

What led you to believe that gun owners were respectful towards everything in life? I'm not saying I have been disrespectful but this is just a silly statement based on 0 facts and only personal interpretation.

When an IP posts that people are calling up and threatening to smear their names if they don't get an early release, then they're being dicks. I have no problem with people trying to switch to use an FFL willing to give them their stuff faster, but bitching about ones that aren't willing to take that risk and threatening them is being a dick.

 

[USAFRavenR6]

When an IP posts that people are calling up and threatening to smear their names if they don't get an early release, then they're being dicks. I have no problem with people trying to switch to use an FFL willing to give them their stuff faster, but bitching about ones that aren't willing to take that risk and threatening them is being a dick.

I have no insight as to if that is happening or not. To play devils advocate here, if customers are calling up and demanding their purchases and they waited 8 days, they are within their rights to do so as that is within the law. MD Shooters has a limited amount of traffic when it comes to up to date information and if the IP does not communicate realistic wait times then that is on the IP. Like I said, I am not privy to those conversations and I cant say what was/was not done or said. I am only referring to the statements I made here and nothing else.

 

[MadCat0911]

I have no insight as to if that is happening or not. To play devils advocate here, if customers are calling up and demanding their purchases and they waited 8 days, they are within their rights to do so as that is within the law. MD Shooters has a limited amount of traffic when it comes to up to date information and if the IP does not communicate realistic wait times then that is on the IP. Like I said, I am not privy to those conversations and I cant say what was/was not done or said. I am only referring to the statements I made here and nothing else.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, the first post I replied to here mentioned it. And yeah, you're within your right to call up and ask for it since it's after the 7 day wait period. You're within your right to even bitch and complain and tell everyone you know that the business isn't giving in to your demands and is listening to what the cops and their insurance companies say to do instead. Heck, you're even in your rights to try and smear them. People doing that, in this atmosphere, are dicks.

 

[mcornish86@gmail.com]

Can we complain to better business bureau that ffl aren't following the law for 8th day release?

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless.

 

[tsmith1499]

This was from another member. I'm just to dumb to figure out how to multi qoute. My comment is at the end.

"I attended the gun show in Timonium on Apr. 28. I impulsively bought an AR15-type rifle when I was there. The vendor that sold it to me is actually based in Pennsylvania, but he had a Maryland FFL at his table with him to handle the transfer. The Maryland guy doesn't actually sell guns as a regular matter, but he does have a license. I paid for the gun at the show, filled out the paperwork, and the FFL faxed it to the MSP the next day (Apr. 29). This is my first purchase of a "regulated" firearm in Maryland.

This weekend I emailed the FFL, asked him if he'd be willing to release my gun--since it's now past day 8--and made my best case as to why that would be legal. He emailed back:

Quote:
Quite frankly, all of your points are quite valid. But the key word is "may" and therefore puts the onus on the Licensee.

Since I do not know you personally, the answer is no.
I guess that puts me in the ever-growing queue. If I get my gun by August I'll be surprised. "


(me)
This FFL KNOWS the law. It says "MAY" it does not say "have to". MAY!!!!! Like he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. I have been saying this ALL along in other discussions. It IS there in black and white. I still applaud MSI, AGC, and the Dealers org. for the lawsuit.

 

[IMBLITZVT]

While I don't blame FFLs to much for not releasing before MSP gets back to them...

I do think its fair to say that I will consider this in where I buy guns in the future. I want to support those that take more risk to protect our 2A rights. The law is clear that its legal to release, so anything more should not be risk, just CYA. What if this wait time gets out to a year or so. Will everyone will be happy waiting that long? I buy MGs and wait 7 months for a gun. It sucks. I don't want to have to do that when its not required by law.

So I am not out to bash FFLs that don't release but I am all for helping support those that do! They are taking on the extra risk and I think should be rewarded for it. Those that don't want the risk of not releasing early will not have to worry about it as everyone buys guns from those that do take the risk of only following what is required by law. Thats the free market at work!

 

[jpo183]

This was from another member. I'm just to dumb to figure out how to multi qoute. My comment is at the end.

"I attended the gun show in Timonium on Apr. 28. I impulsively bought an AR15-type rifle when I was there. The vendor that sold it to me is actually based in Pennsylvania, but he had a Maryland FFL at his table with him to handle the transfer. The Maryland guy doesn't actually sell guns as a regular matter, but he does have a license. I paid for the gun at the show, filled out the paperwork, and the FFL faxed it to the MSP the next day (Apr. 29). This is my first purchase of a "regulated" firearm in Maryland.

This weekend I emailed the FFL, asked him if he'd be willing to release my gun--since it's now past day 8--and made my best case as to why that would be legal. He emailed back:

Quote:
Quite frankly, all of your points are quite valid. But the key word is "may" and therefore puts the onus on the Licensee.

Since I do not know you personally, the answer is no.
I guess that puts me in the ever-growing queue. If I get my gun by August I'll be surprised. "


(me)
This FFL KNOWS the law. It says "MAY" it does not say "have to". MAY!!!!! Like he doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. I have been saying this ALL along in other discussions. It IS there in black and white. I still applaud MSI, AGC, and the Dealers org. for the lawsuit.

I can understand this however in most cases (the case with the original FFL I was going to transfer my lower to).

I have purchased multiple guns from him in the past six months, I am in his shop talking to his guys every other week. My Father in law has been doing the same. The FFL knows us, done business with us, and has been consistently seeing us outside of purchases.

FFLs that do not release, in this category , IMO are not standing up for 2A rights nor providing customer service.

 

[MadCat0911]

Can we complain to better business bureau that ffl aren't following the law for 8th day release?

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless.

Only if you're an asshat. They are following the law, unless the law hides some must instead of may release after the 7 day period that none of the thousands of gun owners in this state have ever caught on to. If you find that clause, please, share it with us.

 

[Billcw]

I feel like i am talking to a wall here ..

Holding the FFL's to blame for this is beyong stupid anymore and for some saying that they are anti 2A is really getting annoying .

Unless you are and IP/FFL then you do not have any risk ir have an understanding of what is going on with this right now .

THese people were there behind the lines during the SB281 issue before any of you even new what was going on .

These some of these dealers are even involved with the lawsuit thats going on that they are spending thier money on so we can hopefully get this issues resolved in writing .

For all we know some dealers could be getting threatend by the higher ups of MSP that if they release a gun and something happens they will go after the dealer .

So not to keep going on and on stop giving the FFL's a hard damn time . Your not in thier shoes .

ANd for those saying its my gun i paid for it ...sorry to be blunt but until the paperwork is signed its not yours even if money is being held . They can choose to cancel the transaction at the last minute if the want to .

WE all have had to wait and it sucks and they are trying to get the situation fixed in writing to take care of any legal matters that may try and pop thier had up .

 

[commiezapr]

Only if you're an asshat. They are following the law, unless the law hides some must instead of may release after the 7 day period that none of the thousands of gun owners in this state have ever caught on to. If you find that clause, please, share it with us.

http://www.dsd.state.md.us/comar/getfile.aspx?file=29.03.01.10.htm

EDIT: Posted for reference, I don't agree that pestering FFL's is the way to go.

 

[thai]

So I'm supposed to be an asshat and talk bad about a company because another company is taking a risk they're unwilling to take? If you really want your stuff faster, by all means, move to OT. But don't be a dick while doing so.

And here I thought gun owners were generally more respectful than the rest of the rabble.

I think one who is in the ffl bussiness claiming to be threatened by customers to release regulated firearms after 7 days without any proof of said harassment are asshats and dicks.

There is nothing wrong with expecting ffls to release firearms after 7 days while still following the law. Read neither breaking or disregarding the law. We as buyers can chose to purchase from any ffl that is following the law and releasing regulated firearms after seven days. This make us neither an asshat nor dicks. To label us so makes you an asshat and a dick.

No one here is harassing any ffl. If they do so, the ffl is within his right to cancel and refund the buyers money. This makes neither the ffl or buyers asshats or dick.

Please get of your high horse and stop acting like an asshat or a dick.

We are on the same side. We all have our freedom to make legal choices. I support the choice of ffls to wait for the MSP ND as I also support buyers to chose to purchase from flls that follow the law and legally release firearms after seven days.

 

[mdshooter9090]

Will someone answer a question? 3

Is OnTarget releasing in 7 days, yes or no?

Or is this a pathetic publicity stunt?

 

[A1Uni]

I think one who is in the ffl bussiness claiming to be threatened by customers to release regulated firearms after 7 days without any proof of said harassment are asshats and dicks.

There is nothing wrong with expecting ffls to release firearms after 7 days while still following the law. Read neither breaking or disregarding the law. We as buyers can chose to purchase from any ffl that is following the law and releasing regulated firearms after seven days. This make us neither an asshat nor dicks. To label us so makes you an asshat and a dick.

No one here is harassing any ffl. If they do so, the ffl is within his right to cancel and refund the buyers money. This makes neither the ffl or buyers asshats or dick.

Please get of your high horse and stop acting like an asshat or a dick.

We are on the same side. We all have our freedom to make legal choices. I support the choice of ffls to wait for the MSP ND as I also support buyers to chose to purchase from flls that follow the law and legally release firearms after seven days.

WOW, well then I am an Asshat and you can take your business elsewhere because we would clearly not get along.

I don't owe anyone any proof unless I name names or call out users, which I did not do.

It sounds like you are calling me a liar, nice first post new guy....