Will the new NICs check requirement be the end of FFL03 to FFL03 sales?

[mawkie]

I heard a talking head yesterday on the NPR News saying that Slick Willy (Mr. Clinton) added that piece to force about 200,000 dealers to lose their FFLs in the 90's. Obama's speech was a 180 degree reversal from the Clinton initiative if taken at face value.

There are about a dozen other threads on the proposed EO's, so let's not get too bogged down on this here. My skeptical belief is that regardless of what Obama said, they aren't going to change the current ATF licensing to allow internet and gun show only dealers to become FFL-01s.

Yes, the Clinton Admin. decided that they wanted to do away with "kitchen dealers" so they raised the license fee considerably (used to be $30), added the dictate that you had to be deriving your primary income from the FFL and had to have a brick and mortar shop in a commercial location with regular business hours (oh and it can't be within 1000 feet of a school too). The net result was that hundreds of thousands of small part-time and full time dealers gave up their FFLs. Mission accomplished.
I'm going to put up my feet and wait for the dust to clear. Have to renew my C&R soon but don't expect it'll be delayed any more than normal. I seriously doubt this administration will be able to push that outrageous limit upon the citizenry without having it overturned in the courts. If we're fortunate a judge will force the administration to suspend any crap until it's heard in court and so activity (I didn't say the B word!) will go on as usual.
What I would be concerned about is the mental health side of this. I can easily see how the screws will be turned to not only deny sales to someone with a "mental health issues" but to remove firearms from their possession. This is already occurring in the VA system and Obama wants to expand it. I know this will discourage anyone from seeking proper mental health council or treatment for fear of losing their 2A rights forever or having to fight the gov't to get them back (think like trying to get your voting rights back after a conviction in criminal court). And who decides who is "mentally incompetent"? I'm certain that progressives in the government would love to use this power to their advantage at every turn. There's a scary thought. Orwell would be flabbergasted.

 

[Lou45]

If they are then wtf is the point of an ffl03?

Read on .........

NICS isn't required for sale to a licensed person.
That's the whole point of being licensed.

THIS^^^

How will shops handle the no NICS required for CCW holders for sales? (where applicable)

If AZ (your state) is like that, your current carry permit is proof of being vetted as per LAW. Carry on..............

I think that 03 FFLs who move skads of guns openly over Gunbroker and such sites may have problems when they get around to trying to put teeth in the "Presidential," and I use that term with no respect intended, over-reach.

They would be very hard pressed to prove someone was in business only selling a few guns a year, and the clarification above about "their" definition do what constitutes business us just a scare tactic, and ya know what, it's working.....unfortunately.

I've known people (03 types) that would order 10 to 20 of a given type of C&R type gun, keep one or two of them and sell the rest at a mini profit to make their kept gun(s) free to them. They'd do this a dozen or so times a year. Add it up, averaging 15 guns per order, a dozen different type guns per year, keep an average of 1.5 guns per oder, that's 162 guns that one person per year sells with no background check unless it's only to other 03 type ffl's he sells to, of which I severely doubt.

I heard a talking head yesterday on the NPR News saying that Slick Willy (Mr. Clinton) added that piece to force about 200,000 dealers to lose their FFLs in the 90's. Obama's speech was a 180 degree reversal from the Clinton initiative if taken at face value.

There are about a dozen other threads on the proposed EO's, so let's not get too bogged down on this here. My skeptical belief is that regardless of what Obama said, they aren't going to change the current ATF licensing to allow internet and gun show only dealers to become FFL-01s.

This is correct. What is it they (ATF) is actually going to do is who daphuk knows as I don't know if they (ATF) can restructure to allow a non-licensee to register with NICS and make background checks, not to mention it being based on an EO and not LAW. It's possible that all transfers of modern firearms (manufactured 1898 to current date) that require a background check (o3 ffl's, some state's ccw's, etc., already recognized as being vetted won't need the background check) will have to be conducted by current licensed firearms dealers. This can get really interesting.

 

[pitpawten]

[...]with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms[...]

There you go ^

 

[good guy 176]

Idk about that. Nothing says a business HAS to turn a profit.

The IRS considers it a hobby if a it doesn't turn a profit in 3 years or so. I'm going back a few years, but I doubt the reg has changed.

Lew--Ranger63

 

[protegeV]

The IRS considers it a hobby if a it doesn't turn a profit in 3 years or so. I'm going back a few years, but I doubt the reg has changed.

Lew--Ranger63

Specifically an ffl03, or any business that doesn't turn a profit? Sometimes we call those charities

 

[somd_mustangs]

For example my "small business" (band) would be considered a hobby if I lost money for 3 years in a row, therefore wouldn't be able to use business deductions or depreciations anymore.

BY definition an FFL-03 isn't a business anyway.