Will the new NICs check requirement be the end of FFL03 to FFL03 sales?

[JHE1956]

I just had an FFL-03 refuse to sell/ship a Type 38 Arisaka to me because of the "new" requirements. I'm trying to convince him to send it through an FFL-01 at the sellers end (cheaper than the going rate locally).

Thoughts - are FFL-03s going to become dependent on FFL-01s?

 

[protegeV]

I just had an FFL-03 refuse to sell/ship a Type 38 Arisaka to me because of the "new" requirements. I'm trying to convince him to send it through an FFL-01 at the sellers end (cheaper than the going rate locally).

Thoughts - are FFL-03s going to become dependent on FFL-01s?

If they are then wtf is the point of an ffl03?

 

[Threeband]

What new NICS check requirement?

 

[iH8DemLibz]

IT-HAS-BEGUN!!!

National B.G.O.S.

 

[protegeV]

What new NICS check requirement?

There is none yet, obviously. O gives a speech and everyone is all

 

[somd_mustangs]

NICS isn't required for sale to a licensed person.
That's the whole point of being licensed.

 

[CasualObserver]

NICS isn't required for sale to a licensed person.
That's the whole point of being licensed.

There is none yet, obviously. O gives a speech and everyone is all

This

Sigh.... I can't believe it has begun already. Business as usual as far as I'm concerned.... for now.

 

[CasualObserver]

This

Sigh.... I can't believe it has begun already. Business as usual as far as I'm concerned.... for now.

Did I say business? I didn't mean business.... no business here.... move along, move along!

 

[Threeband]

IT-HAS-BEGUN!!!

National B.G.O.S.

That is exactly right.

No changes, no new rules, nothing.

Just a reminder that anyone "engaging in the business" (which has always been subject to interpretation) needs an 01 FFL.

03 FFLs have always known that.

There are no new NICS checks. Nothing new at all.

Just a huge epidemic of National BGOS, in which we ourselves invent new ways to infringe on our own rights.

 

[Armadillofz1]

And a rash of gun stores all making up their own rules, just to be "extra safe". Like not releasing after 7 days until not disapproved. That was upwards of 6 months in some cases.

How will shops handle the no NICS required for CCW holders for sales? (where applicable)

 

[j8064]

There's no doubt in my mind it's an empty sh*t storm intentionally stirred up by Obummer that will result in reinterpretation, panic and confusion on so many levels. He will say it's about common sense. But at the end of the day it's about removing firearms from his "ideal society" - one small spoonful of sh*t at a time.

 

[AACo]

There's no doubt in my mind it's an empty sh*t storm intentionally stirred up by Obummer that will result in reinterpretation, panic and confusion on so many levels. He will say it's about common sense. But at the end of the day it's about removing firearms from his "ideal society" - one small spoonful of sh*t at a time.

I have a bad feeling about this one too (NICS check).

Anyone notice that the White House press release stated:

"But it is important to note that even a few transactions, when combined with other evidence, can be sufficient to establish that a person is “engaged in the business.” For example, courts have upheld convictions for dealing without a license when as few as two firearms were sold or when only one or two transactions took place, when other factors also were present."

Two happens to be the same number of rifles "sold" to the San Bernardino terrorists by the neighbor. I, unfortunately, think this will apply to all private sales at some point.

Edit: I think that guy is being charged with straw purchase (x2) though. Maybe this is why?

 

[A1Uni]

I think that 03 FFLs who move skads of guns openly over Gunbroker and such sites may have problems when they get around to trying to put teeth in the "Presidential," and I use that term with no respect intended, over-reach.

They would be very hard pressed to prove someone was in business only selling a few guns a year, and the clarification above about "their" definition do what constitutes business us just a scare tactic, and ya know what, it's working.....unfortunately.

 

[protegeV]

I think that 03 FFLs who move skads of guns openly over Gunbroker and such sites may have problems when they get around to trying to put teeth in the "Presidential," and I use that term with no respect intended, over-reach.

They would be very hard pressed to prove someone was in business only selling a few guns a year, and the clarification above about "their" definition do what constitutes business us just a scare tactic, and ya know what, it's working.....unfortunately.

Yup. Lawful gun owners scare pretty easily in general.

 

[Doctor_M]

Simple... never sell nothing. Keep acquiring!

 

[Jollyllama]

Or sell to a friend with a bill of sale for what you paid for it. No profit, no business.

 

[protegeV]

Or sell to a friend with a bill of sale for what you paid for it. No profit, no business.

Idk about that. Nothing says a business HAS to turn a profit.

 

[Machodoc]

It's not a business, it's a hobby building a historic collection. Keep that in top-of-mind awareness.

The sheer stupidity of this all is that one of the main objectives is to close the so-called "gun show loophole" by requiring sellers to be licensed, but the file below (BATFE license application) show that you aren't allowed to do this.

You'd think that, with all the smart staffers Obama has gathered around him, someone might have looked at that part of the picture, too, and made an adjustment.

On a related note, here's BATFE says about "engaging in business".

Section 923(a), Title 18, U.S.C., provides that no person shall engage in the business of dealing in firearms until he has filed an application and received a license to do so. Section 922(a)(1), Title 18, U.S.C., provides that it is unlawful for any person, other than a licensee, to engage in the business of dealing in firearms. Licensees generally may not conduct business away from their licensed premises.

The term “dealer” is defined at 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(11)(A) to include any person engaged in the business of selling firearms at wholesale or retail. The term “engaged in the business” as applied to a dealer in firearms means a person who devotes time, attention, and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principal objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms. A dealer can be “engaged in the business” without taking title to the firearms that are sold.

However, the term does not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.
18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(21)(C).

 

[cantstop]

The sheer stupidity of this all is that one of the main objectives is to close the so-called "gun show loophole" by requiring sellers to be licensed, but the file below (BATFE license application) show that you aren't allowed to do this.

I heard a talking head yesterday on the NPR News saying that Slick Willy (Mr. Clinton) added that piece to force about 200,000 dealers to lose their FFLs in the 90's. Obama's speech was a 180 degree reversal from the Clinton initiative if taken at face value.

There are about a dozen other threads on the proposed EO's, so let's not get too bogged down on this here. My skeptical belief is that regardless of what Obama said, they aren't going to change the current ATF licensing to allow internet and gun show only dealers to become FFL-01s.

 

[plinkerton]

Yup. Lawful gun owners scare pretty easily in general.

Yes

Simple... never sell nothing. Keep acquiring!

And yes

I just had to buy another safe ....


And I've got another safe occupant on the way to Baltimore's Best Pawn. Hope I bought a big enough safe this time.