Will 12ga f-up a black bear?
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marlin.357
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No one ever has any problem with black bears, until they do...
From Kentucky
Posted on Tue, Jun. 29, 2010
Victim describes bear attack; Red River Gorge is closed
'I'm down on the ground; His teeth are deep in me'
By Dori Hjalmarson, Josh Kegley and Karla Ward
Herald-Leader Staff Writers
RED RIVER GORGE — The Red River Gorge area in Daniel Boone National Forest is closed until further notice after what officials said was the first black bear attack on a human in modern Kentucky history.
Tim Scott, 56, of Springfield said he was hiking on Pinch-Em Tight Trail on Sunday when the bear attacked him without provocation about 2:15 p.m.
Scott said in a telephone interview that he was standing on a ledge, his blue heeler dog with him on a retractable leash, when he realized there was something behind them. When he turned, he said, the black bear was standing on the trail.
As it ambled off, he took some pictures of it with his iPhone. He had been walking several hundred yards ahead of his wife and adult son.
"I was going to call my wife and say, 'I don't think we ought to be on the trail with a bear,' " Scott said.
But he didn't get the chance.
He said the bear got back on the trail and "began walking towards me deliberately."
"I retreated down the trail and ducked into the woods," he said, but the bear followed.
When his dog became excited, he said, he let her go.
"She took off like a bullet," he said.
Scott said he took a few more pictures, but the bear came closer, eventually getting within about 3 feet of him.
He dropped his belt pack as a distraction and picked up a 6-foot long "very rotten pine limb."
As the bear continued to approach, he kept backing up. He tried hitting the bear with the end of the stick, then dropping his hat and cell phone case, but the bear was undeterred.
After walking backward about 70 feet on the trail, Scott said, he came to a point where he was going to have to take a step up. He had to turn his back to the bear to get a foothold.
"He lunged forward and bit the back of my calf," Scott said.
He said he tried getting behind a small tree, but it didn't provide much protection, and his stick crumbled.
The bear "grabbed me by the back of my right thigh," Scott said. "He took a couple of bites."
Then, Scott said, he "really dug in deep and began shaking me kind of like a dog would do with a toy.
"I'm down on the ground. His teeth are deep in me."
Scott said he had a knife in his pocket, but the bear was standing on it.
"I had to move his leg" to retrieve the knife, Scott said.
He opened his knife and prepared to stab the bear in the eye.
"I figured that's about all I had left," he said.
At that point, Scott said, two couples who had been hiking showed up, and one of the hikers, Anthony Gobel, slung his daypack into the bear, hitting it a couple of times. (Gobel's Facebook page, on which he describes the encounter, says he is from Indiana.)
Scott said he got to his feet, and the four other hikers and Scott's wife and son yelled at the bear and waved sticks at it. The bear did not leave.
Scott said he had "some huge holes in me." He strapped a belt around his thigh to slow the bleeding and walked back to the trail head. The bear followed at greater and greater distances until finally it was gone.
"We saw him for quite a while," Scott said.
After Scott got to the trail head, he said, an ambulance arrived within five to eight minutes to take him to the hospital in Irvine.
He was transferred to University of Kentucky chandler Hospital and received about 50 to 60 stitches, mostly in his right leg. Scott said he was released Sunday night after about eight hours in the emergency room.
"Anthony Gobel went above and beyond," Scott said. "I had two chances to survive this. One was him. One was the knife."
Campgrounds evacuated
Campers who flocked to the gorge a week before Fourth of July for rock climbing and hiking, some from out of state, were turned away at the gates Monday. Campgrounds were evacuated as state officials set traps and tried to find the bear.
"This is crazy," said Sarah Sutton, who arrived Monday afternoon with a van full of young people from Teen Extreme Camp in Bloomington, Ind. "We don't know where we're going to go."
The group planned to camp and climb for four days. U.S. Forest Service officials directed them to other recreation areas, such as Cave Run Lake an hour away and Natural Bridge State Park, which remained open just south of the Mountain Parkway.
State wildlife officials are setting traps in the area to capture the bear and, until they have caught it or know that it has left the area, the Red River Gorge recreation area will be closed, said U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Kimberly Morgan.
Scott said he thinks the bear should be euthanized: "Just like humans, there are some bad ones that need to be taken out of circulation."
But he added, "I have to defend the right of bears to be where they live. ... It was theirs before it was ours."
Steven Dobey, black bear program manager for the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife, said it's rare for black bears to attack unprovoked.
"The bear wasn't interested in the man's belongings. He was more interested in a predatory nature," Dobey said. "It's rare, but it has been known to happen."
Scott said the bear had a red tag in each of its ears and a stainless steel clamp in one ear, indicating it had been captured before, but Dobey said that doesn't mean the bear was known to be aggressive.
"In cases where a bear would be aggressive to a human, we would not release that animal," he said.
Officials are hoping to discover where the bear came from. Male black bears are known to wander great distances, Morgan said.
The closed area includes all National Forest System lands north of Natural Bridge State Resort Park to U.S. 460 in Menifee, Powell and Wolfe counties.
Anyone who sees a black bear in the Red River Gorge area is urged to call 1-800-252-5378.
Scott said he's been hiking in the gorge since he was a child, and he'd never seen a bear there before.
He plans to go back though and said he will "look forward to seeing the next bear there."
From Kentucky
Posted on Tue, Jun. 29, 2010
Victim describes bear attack; Red River Gorge is closed
'I'm down on the ground; His teeth are deep in me'
By Dori Hjalmarson, Josh Kegley and Karla Ward
Herald-Leader Staff Writers
RED RIVER GORGE — The Red River Gorge area in Daniel Boone National Forest is closed until further notice after what officials said was the first black bear attack on a human in modern Kentucky history.
Tim Scott, 56, of Springfield said he was hiking on Pinch-Em Tight Trail on Sunday when the bear attacked him without provocation about 2:15 p.m.
Scott said in a telephone interview that he was standing on a ledge, his blue heeler dog with him on a retractable leash, when he realized there was something behind them. When he turned, he said, the black bear was standing on the trail.
As it ambled off, he took some pictures of it with his iPhone. He had been walking several hundred yards ahead of his wife and adult son.
"I was going to call my wife and say, 'I don't think we ought to be on the trail with a bear,' " Scott said.
But he didn't get the chance.
He said the bear got back on the trail and "began walking towards me deliberately."
"I retreated down the trail and ducked into the woods," he said, but the bear followed.
When his dog became excited, he said, he let her go.
"She took off like a bullet," he said.
Scott said he took a few more pictures, but the bear came closer, eventually getting within about 3 feet of him.
He dropped his belt pack as a distraction and picked up a 6-foot long "very rotten pine limb."
As the bear continued to approach, he kept backing up. He tried hitting the bear with the end of the stick, then dropping his hat and cell phone case, but the bear was undeterred.
After walking backward about 70 feet on the trail, Scott said, he came to a point where he was going to have to take a step up. He had to turn his back to the bear to get a foothold.
"He lunged forward and bit the back of my calf," Scott said.
He said he tried getting behind a small tree, but it didn't provide much protection, and his stick crumbled.
The bear "grabbed me by the back of my right thigh," Scott said. "He took a couple of bites."
Then, Scott said, he "really dug in deep and began shaking me kind of like a dog would do with a toy.
"I'm down on the ground. His teeth are deep in me."
Scott said he had a knife in his pocket, but the bear was standing on it.
"I had to move his leg" to retrieve the knife, Scott said.
He opened his knife and prepared to stab the bear in the eye.
"I figured that's about all I had left," he said.
At that point, Scott said, two couples who had been hiking showed up, and one of the hikers, Anthony Gobel, slung his daypack into the bear, hitting it a couple of times. (Gobel's Facebook page, on which he describes the encounter, says he is from Indiana.)
Scott said he got to his feet, and the four other hikers and Scott's wife and son yelled at the bear and waved sticks at it. The bear did not leave.
Scott said he had "some huge holes in me." He strapped a belt around his thigh to slow the bleeding and walked back to the trail head. The bear followed at greater and greater distances until finally it was gone.
"We saw him for quite a while," Scott said.
After Scott got to the trail head, he said, an ambulance arrived within five to eight minutes to take him to the hospital in Irvine.
He was transferred to University of Kentucky chandler Hospital and received about 50 to 60 stitches, mostly in his right leg. Scott said he was released Sunday night after about eight hours in the emergency room.
"Anthony Gobel went above and beyond," Scott said. "I had two chances to survive this. One was him. One was the knife."
Campgrounds evacuated
Campers who flocked to the gorge a week before Fourth of July for rock climbing and hiking, some from out of state, were turned away at the gates Monday. Campgrounds were evacuated as state officials set traps and tried to find the bear.
"This is crazy," said Sarah Sutton, who arrived Monday afternoon with a van full of young people from Teen Extreme Camp in Bloomington, Ind. "We don't know where we're going to go."
The group planned to camp and climb for four days. U.S. Forest Service officials directed them to other recreation areas, such as Cave Run Lake an hour away and Natural Bridge State Park, which remained open just south of the Mountain Parkway.
State wildlife officials are setting traps in the area to capture the bear and, until they have caught it or know that it has left the area, the Red River Gorge recreation area will be closed, said U.S. Forest Service spokeswoman Kimberly Morgan.
Scott said he thinks the bear should be euthanized: "Just like humans, there are some bad ones that need to be taken out of circulation."
But he added, "I have to defend the right of bears to be where they live. ... It was theirs before it was ours."
Steven Dobey, black bear program manager for the Kentucky Department of Fish and Wildlife, said it's rare for black bears to attack unprovoked.
"The bear wasn't interested in the man's belongings. He was more interested in a predatory nature," Dobey said. "It's rare, but it has been known to happen."
Scott said the bear had a red tag in each of its ears and a stainless steel clamp in one ear, indicating it had been captured before, but Dobey said that doesn't mean the bear was known to be aggressive.
"In cases where a bear would be aggressive to a human, we would not release that animal," he said.
Officials are hoping to discover where the bear came from. Male black bears are known to wander great distances, Morgan said.
The closed area includes all National Forest System lands north of Natural Bridge State Resort Park to U.S. 460 in Menifee, Powell and Wolfe counties.
Anyone who sees a black bear in the Red River Gorge area is urged to call 1-800-252-5378.
Scott said he's been hiking in the gorge since he was a child, and he'd never seen a bear there before.
He plans to go back though and said he will "look forward to seeing the next bear there."
Thank you Salt, for the box o' truth!
What a great bear story by .357.
Hope to see you all this Saturday!
What a great bear story by .357.
Hope to see you all this Saturday!
hard_core_emt
Active Member
Will be on display in my livingroom just as soon as the taxidermist calls me. The MD state record was killed 12 miles from my house and it was like 630lbs. My 320lb'er scored 18 1/8 P&Y . Not the worlds biggest but its mine
Wow! Beer is on me (ok, much of it...lol). I'm not one to try to invite myself anyplace, but if your are up for it, I'm pretty sure there are a few of us,...
wait, dang, just pulled up a map, Oakland is deep into W.VA. Nice but that's more that a 'day trip' for us.
I'm still interested, anyone else? What do you think EMT? (p.s. I was an EMT in VA for 4 years while in HS, good times!)
wait, dang, just pulled up a map, Oakland is deep into W.VA. Nice but that's more that a 'day trip' for us.
I'm still interested, anyone else? What do you think EMT? (p.s. I was an EMT in VA for 4 years while in HS, good times!)
- May 22, 2005
- 122,889
The one time I saw a black bear at the Undisclosed Location, he took off running as fast as he could away from me.
I, of course, did likewise the opposite direction
I, of course, did likewise the opposite direction
Biggfoot44
Ultimate Member
- Aug 2, 2009
- 33,297
Yes, slugs for shotgun. Brenneke specifically, only slightly more than common US mfg slugs, semi common in stores, order from usual places.
...
Ultimate Member
I think bear mace is easier to use or just buy a .44. You can't really walk around with a shotgun in most places, you could say you are "hunting" but then you can't have more than 3 shells. Why not get the .44, .454, .460 or 500 S&W, it would take up no space, you could always have it unlike the shotgun, you have more chances to stop the bear and if you come across something with two legs that is giving you a problem you can put it down.
besides if you buy bear mace you can be bounty hunter
you can also get a tactical hip holster for the bear mac, open carry it and bring it to bars or anywhere else.
doesn't look like bear mace works though, so get the gun.
besides if you buy bear mace you can be bounty hunter
you can also get a tactical hip holster for the bear mac, open carry it and bring it to bars or anywhere else.
doesn't look like bear mace works though, so get the gun.
...
Ultimate Member
if you can't afford the big bore pistol,
just get a short barrel mosin
it should stop anything.
just get a short barrel mosin
it should stop anything.
LOL...
He said...
"how's that supposed to stop anything?"
"now I'm uncomfortable"
"...my armpits..."
"It's in my eyes now"
This is classic, almost as funny as the guy that went super happy after seeing a full double rainbow... most excellent! (ok, I'll go find it for you, must see)
"Woah, it's a double rainbow all the way... so intense!"
He said...
"how's that supposed to stop anything?"
"now I'm uncomfortable"
"...my armpits..."
"It's in my eyes now"
This is classic, almost as funny as the guy that went super happy after seeing a full double rainbow... most excellent! (ok, I'll go find it for you, must see)
"Woah, it's a double rainbow all the way... so intense!"
Half-cocked
Senior Meatbag
- Mar 14, 2006
- 23,937
I would love to see the muzzle flash that thing makes.
There are plenty of videos where it does work.
A few things:
1) He only let off a quick spray; if you are being charged you are going to keep spraying.
2) the victim had his eyes shut, and probably held his breath. A bear isn't going to know or think to do that.
3) Bears senses, especially smell, are much stronger than ours; that burning and loss of sense is going to startle and confuse the bear, making it change it's mind.
...
Ultimate Member
1) not true
2) no way to know that and when bear bite they close their eyes.
3) that is not true either, ever see a bear get honey? If they need to eat, nothing is changing their minds.
the tactical bear mace hip holster is essential.
Bears don't attack humans to eat. Every animal will give up on a meal that is more trouble than it's worth. Losing sense of smell and sight, mixed with a ridiculous amount of pain is generally more pain than a meal is worth, plus it's hard to catch a meal that you can no longer sense.
FrankOceanXray
Ultimate Member
- Oct 29, 2008
- 12,037
Polyshok.
Goose Guy
Skooma lord
if you can't afford the big bore pistol,
just get a short barrel mosin
it should stop anything.
I wish I could have found the one at night, but you can still see part of a fireball around the second shot or so. A good 5' on the other video.
Edit: just in case I screwed up the code → http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNFsUvh078I
Jerry M
Ultimate Member
Where is your brother camping where he can carry a loaded shotgun?
racinghoss
Missing Alaska
- Nov 3, 2008
- 1,567
There is lots of misinformation here. I hope I can shed some light and clear a few things up. FWIW, I have a degree in Wildlife Biology and I have lived in places like Idaho and Alaska. I have been charged by both a brown and black bear. I worked around blackies every day at my job in AK and have had up close and personal contact with more bears than any other 1000 people have likely even seen at a distance. Not bragging, I just want my statements to carry a little weight.
Although it may be possible to scare a bear away using firecrackers (mentioned earlier), make sure that lighting them does not interfere with your ability to use a firearm for protection. Sometimes, a startled bear is more likely to charge than a bear that is not. Firecrackers might incite the fight half of a bear's fight or flight mechanism. I have seen bears charge at a military police officer who was using a shotgun to deliver firecracker rounds and rubber rounds at it.
12ga slugs is the best protection. Do not use 00buckshot or birdshot. Bear hides are tough. Thier skulls are like plate steel. The buckshot will just tear the hide off of them, but it will not kill them. Slugs are heavy enough to break through the massive bones and penetrate the thick hide that bears have. Large caliber rifles are also good. A 45/70 guide gun is a good choice. As with any other firearm related self defense situation, being comfortable and well practiced will pay off. I used to carry a .44mag 4" bbl (300gr hardball ammo - no JHP) and a pistol grip 12ga with slugs when I was in the bush. I felt that combo gave me the best chance of fighting a bear off of me if necessary. YOu may have to shoot a bear that is already mauling you. Having options is good since you may not be able to rack another round into a shotgun or draw from your holster. I carried the pistol on my chest and the sg was either in my hand or slung across my back for easy access. I have seen brownies that were killed with 9mm pistols - one shot. However, that was a freak incident. Much like you stabbing and killing yourself with a toothbrush accidentally. Dont count on it happening for you. Be prepared.
Pepper spray is the laughing stock of most Alaskans. I have heard more stories of people getting it in thier own eyes than stories of where it has saved them. Wind, weather, and predicting the bear's travel are all possible snafu's.
Black bears are actually more dangerous than brownies. Why? Because although they are not as outwardly aggressive, once they attack - they are committed to killing you. With a brown bear, you can assume a fetal position (play dead) and hope the bear will consider your threat to be abolished or that it will grow bored with you. A black bear MUST be fought off of you by whatever means necessary. Dont stop until it is dead or retreating. Blackies can be startled into a charge, or feel that you are threatening its cub(s), or its food cache, etc. Oh yeah, some bears can absolutely size you up for a meal. It happens; not often, but to discount it is stupid.
Often a charge is just a bluff charge. They will run at you and pull up a few yards (or a few feet) in front of you. It is a scare tactic - AND IT WORKS!! Both of my charges were bluff charges. I was at the ready with a shotgun once and unarmed (at work on base) for the other. Both times I was shaking and breathing hard - typical adrenaline response. I was going to let the bear get within 5 yards of me before I fired. It pulled up short. Knowing bear behavior saved a bears life that day.
If you have to commit to a DLP kill (defense of life/property) be prepared to report it and defend your kill to the local DNR police, sheriff, park police, etc. It will be highly scrutenized and you had better be able to show that it was necessary. Killing a bear that was 20 yards from you will not fly.
racinghoss
Missing Alaska
- Nov 3, 2008
- 1,567
Sorry for the long post.
BTW, a 350lb blackie in Alaska is far from a trophy. It is mediocre size. 600lbs and better are trophies. FWIW.
BTW, a 350lb blackie in Alaska is far from a trophy. It is mediocre size. 600lbs and better are trophies. FWIW.
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