Whats everyones aversion to modifying CNR arms?

[somd_mustangs]

I thought it was officially C$R now

 

[BlackBart]

I see it all the time where people cry and throw shame out to others when they see a modified CNR rifle.

The perfect example is the Mosin Nagant. I know alot of people like these old goats. I don't know why. They are old heavy and quite often filthy nasty in cosmoline. I bought one like everyone else because for $99 it would be hard to find a rifle that isn't worth that little cash.

I understand there are rare versions and some with hex receivers and super duper rare sniper model which maybe historically significant and available in such low numbers that preserving the firearm given its rarity is important.

What about your run of the mill, no one gives a crap mosin. Hell I would have used mine as a ball peen hammer if it had been more ergonomic. Why do so many care if you decide to do a trigger job, carve your name into the stock or hack saw the rifle into something which would hardly be recognizable as a mosin not to mention most likely unsafe and probably now illegal? These things are still being brought over in troves of crates. If half are destroyed hell that guy probably did you a favor by upping your rarity and now you only have 1 out of 45 and a half million. If they keep going someday the value may rise to something respectable.

Now I joke and kid about the Mosin just because of their numbers there are tons. It doesn't mean its bad. Just very common. What better to try out your freshly acquired "Playschool My first Gunsmith License"

I feel the same way about any firearm really. If the parts are cheap and readily available I believe they are the best to experiment with or to customize to taste. My SKS will modified to the way I like. I don't plan on trashing it by doing the work myself ( I don't have a death wish or nothing) However, I have a vision in my head that is appealing to me and I don't care if the historic value is gone. I am not planning to sell it although once the work is done, many will appreciate it whether they agree with modifying a CNR or not.

Why will some find such sacrilege with what I am saying ?

You're spot on OP, Mosins ARE a dime a dozen and will continue to be so for the next 5 lifetimes, same with the SKS. I have ZERO interest in the Mosin, ugly as shit and as smooth as a 80 grit sanding block. Might be fun to intentionally blow up.... outside of that. I DO have an SKS, fun shooter with negligible recoil, first thing I did was swapped sights to a Mojo. Better sight picture and works better for my eyes. They probably made a fraction of the others compared to the Russian.... without doubt one of the top 2 or 3 mass produced bolt rifles of all times.

 

[240 towles]

guns were made to shoot, if you want to make it more user friendly or custom, do it if it makes you shoot more. If you want it original, keep it that way. Leave others alone. If you go to a car show, and see someone made a limo out of a 69 corvette stingray, do you stop and hassle them about their choices, or do you move on to the next car?

 

[HokieKev]

You're spot on OP, Mosins ARE a dime a dozen and will continue to be so for the next 5 lifetimes, same with the SKS. I have ZERO interest in the Mosin, ugly as shit and as smooth as a 80 grit sanding block. Might be fun to intentionally blow up.... outside of that. I DO have an SKS, fun shooter with negligible recoil, first thing I did was swapped sights to a Mojo. Better sight picture and works better for my eyes. They probably made a fraction of the others compared to the Russian.... without doubt one of the top 2 or 3 mass produced bolt rifles of all times.

I didn't know about those mojo sights. Very cool. I will have to keep those in mind.

 

[Boonie Hat]

There was a time when many of the guns we cherish today were a dime a dozen and it was nothing to cut it up. Mausers, enfields, and every USGI firearm. Just because it's plentiful doesn't mean you should, especially if you don't know anything about it. It's been said many tines before that a couple markings could be the difference because a $100 rifle and a $1000 rifle. We feel strongly that history should be preserved, hence why we elect to collect historical pieces. CNR? Your ignorance is amusing

 

[Threeband]

I'm tellin' ya, Bart, you ought to pick up on a few of these $99 Mosins.

... I don't bother to put 91-30s in the safes. ...I leave the 91-30s out for the burglar.

Maybe he'll be so loaded down with 5 foot long 91-30s with fixed bayonets that he'll miss the good stuff.

 

[cestrella13]

For me, I had the exact same intentions. I had dropped my first mosin into an ATI Monte Carlo stock, was going to put on mojo sights or drill/tap a Rock Solid scope mount w/bent bolt.

I had dropped my paratrooper into a TAPCO stock, was going to drill/tap a CHOATE scope mount. And then the regret came. I looked at those two rifles, and wasn't pleased at all.

I just grew a real appreciation for what they were; old battle rifles with a heap of character. Needless-to-say, they are back to the way I bought them.

Just my two cents; in the end, who cares what others think? Your rifle, your call.

 

[wilcam47]

Depends for me...If its something like a Mosin I cant see "bubbarizing" it...I had an SKS with a synthetic stock...that was about the extent of my changing the gun...when you cut the barrel length, re-chamber...its just not worth it IMO. But like others said do what you want with your guns...but dont expect the value to stay the same or increase if you "bubba" it.

 

[mawkie]

Aww crap, I was gonna stay away from this but can't help myself. To me the difference is history. Wanna shoot? There are hard working folk earning a paycheck at Ruger and S&W building firearms for you right here in the USA to modify and shoot to your heart's content. Want more? They'll be happy to build more for you. You don't NEED to select a piece of history to muck with. For me there's no choice, it's the history that I want. They're not making Colt 1902 Military Models anymore.
BTW, the difference between you coming to a collector's forum, pulling the pin on the Bubba grenade and throwing it into the room and me calling the destruction of history a shame is that I don't go to the forums supporting folk sporterizing looking to pick a fight there. What the hell happened to live and let live? You knew exactly what you were going to elicit before you typed the first keystroke of this thread. It had nothing to do with getting a different viewpoint or my honest opinion and more like a bored teenager looking to get a rise out of somebody for the fun of it.
My advice is toodle off to your side of the 2A world and enjoy your activities and leave me to enjoy mine. Why the Hell should I have to defend my 2A beliefs to you? I get enough of that from the gun control lovers all the time.
Rant off, wasted enough time on this. Think I'll head off to an auction this morning and see if I can't piss off a Bubba by out bidding him for a piece of history. Can't save 'em all but I can do my part.

 

[BuildnBurn]

Aww crap, I was gonna stay away from this but can't help myself. To me the difference is history. Wanna shoot? There are hard working folk earning a paycheck at Ruger and S&W building firearms for you right here in the USA to modify and shoot to your heart's content. Want more? They'll be happy to build more for you. You don't NEED to select a piece of history to muck with. For me there's no choice, it's the history that I want. They're not making Colt 1902 Military Models anymore.
BTW, the difference between you coming to a collector's forum, pulling the pin on the Bubba grenade and throwing it into the room and me calling the destruction of history a shame is that I don't go to the forums supporting folk sporterizing looking to pick a fight there. What the hell happened to live and let live? You knew exactly what you were going to elicit before you typed the first keystroke of this thread. It had nothing to do with getting a different viewpoint or my honest opinion and more like a bored teenager looking to get a rise out of somebody for the fun of it.
My advice is toodle off to your side of the 2A world and enjoy your activities and leave me to enjoy mine. Why the Hell should I have to defend my 2A beliefs to you? I get enough of that from the gun control lovers all the time.
Rant off, wasted enough time on this. Think I'll head off to an auction this morning and see if I can't piss off a Bubba by out bidding him for a piece of history. Can't save 'em all but I can do my part.

I couldn't agree with you more mawkie, but trolls aren't happy unless they're trolling.
I remember when Mosin's were around $50; now I see garden variety Mosin's advertised for
$150+ on the local boards.

Hell I remember seeing Lee-Enfields stacked like cordwood and selling for less than $70 each.

Everything dries up with time.

 

[newq]

Aww crap, I was gonna stay away from this but can't help myself. To me the difference is history. Wanna shoot? There are hard working folk earning a paycheck at Ruger and S&W building firearms for you right here in the USA to modify and shoot to your heart's content. Want more? They'll be happy to build more for you. You don't NEED to select a piece of history to muck with. For me there's no choice, it's the history that I want. They're not making Colt 1902 Military Models anymore.
BTW, the difference between you coming to a collector's forum, pulling the pin on the Bubba grenade and throwing it into the room and me calling the destruction of history a shame is that I don't go to the forums supporting folk sporterizing looking to pick a fight there. What the hell happened to live and let live? You knew exactly what you were going to elicit before you typed the first keystroke of this thread. It had nothing to do with getting a different viewpoint or my honest opinion and more like a bored teenager looking to get a rise out of somebody for the fun of it.
My advice is toodle off to your side of the 2A world and enjoy your activities and leave me to enjoy mine. Why the Hell should I have to defend my 2A beliefs to you? I get enough of that from the gun control lovers all the time.
Rant off, wasted enough time on this. Think I'll head off to an auction this morning and see if I can't piss off a Bubba by out bidding him for a piece of history. Can't save 'em all but I can do my part.

Edited after reconsideration.

 

[Dave91]

How ironic that you should blame me for trying to inflame or incite people by asking questions which might be sensitive to some but yet in your response you attempt to talk down to and compare someone with an opposing viewpoint to a demeaning image. Directly. Not could be misconstrued as an attempt to "fire up" the base but, directly attack people.

And I am the bored teenager. Perhaps you should examine your house before you cast stones at me.

No one asked you to defend 2a beliefs to anyone. Participation here is afterall optional.

But I can see how a Lib would think that they should have the authority to dictate to someone else how he or she should use their property. To a Lib after all they don't like the first amendment either which makes sense as to why you are mad I am exercising mine

Now thats flaming.

Allow me to direct you to the Water Cooler...

 

[newq]

Your gun do with it as you please.
If thats what you want ...why not?

I thought about this thoroughly it wasn't something I bought and then later became dissatisfied with and felt the need to modify it. I bought this SKS with the intent of it being a project gun.

I was looking for a semi-auto rifle in an intermediate caliber which would be good in a survival situation and fun to shoot and could be used for deer hunting in worst case scenarios. I did not want a 22lr/mag or smaller.

Working with a smaller budget than modern firearms in that range it is difficult to find something that fits the bill with the introduction of sb281. I like the SKS ten rounds is plenty enough for me I don't care about detachable mags for this build as that facet is fine with me and to be honest I think sks' with the large banana mags look a bit awkward.

The Platform: Chi-com SKS with factory 26 marking, low all matching serials with e4512 as the serial. No additional info could be found on this rifle. Current stock set is in very good condition so it will be set aside in case I ever want to return the gun to stock.

Furniture: I chose to replace the stock furniture with the timbersmith thumbhole in black laminate.

Bayonet removal: I removed the bayonet and have plans to drive the pin from the stock barrel extension which holds the bayonet lug and front globe sight on. I then plan to hop on the lathe and machine a slip over muzzle break and integrate a new front globe to restore open sights. This with the sole intent of getting the bayonet lug out of the way to clean up the rifle appearance.

I am on the fence as to add optics or not. I have heard wartak is the best but, I don't like losing the stripper clip functionality especially since since I do not plan to mess with the stock mag. I may examine receiver cover mounts but may find myself machining a flip up mount much the same way optic doublers do so stripper clips could still be used.

All in all The rifle will be far from where it started and completely returnable to a stock configuration should the want arise.

 

[4095fanatic]

I'm personally averse because I view my firearms as a piece of history, and I want to preserve that history.

That, and those of us with a C&R license *who wish to keep the firearms classified as C&R* are restricted in what we can do to those firearms.

 

[newq]

I'm personally averse because I view my firearms as a piece of history, and I want to preserve that history.

That, and those of us with a C&R license are restricted in what we can do to firearms acquired in such a way anyway

Educate me on this. I wasn't aware that a C&R license placed any restrictions on how you could modify them. Would you mind explaining this? You have peaked my curiosity.

I knew about the 922r and parts count for everyone but didn't know a C&R could restrict you in some ways.

 

[newq]

For those who are wondering what the timbsmith stock looks like.

 

[4095fanatic]

I'll edit for clarity. I meant to put "That, and those of us with a C&R license *who wish to keep the firearms classified as C&R" are restricted in what we can do to firearms.

 

[4095fanatic]

From an ATF FAQ:



Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.
It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.

 

[iH8DemLibz]

From an ATF FAQ:



Q: What modifications can be made on C&R firearms without changing their C&R classification?
The definition for curio or relic (“C & R”) firearms found in 27 CFR § 478.11 does not specifically state that a firearm must be in its original condition to be classified as a C&R firearm. However, ATF Ruling 85-10, which discusses the importation of military C&R firearms, notes that they must be in original configuration and adds that a receiver is not a C&R item. Combining this ruling and the definition of C&R firearms, the Firearms Technology Branch (FTB) has concluded that a firearm must be in its original condition to be considered a C&R weapon.
It is also the opinion of FTB, however, that a minor change such as the addition of scope mounts, non-original sights, or sling swivels would not remove a firearm from its original condition. Moreover, we have determined that replacing particular firearms parts with new parts that are made to the original design would also be acceptable-for example, replacing a cracked M1 Grand stock with a new wooden stock of the same design, but replacing the original firearm stock with a plastic stock would change its classification as a C&R item.

Disclaimer: Not siding with the OP.

This only applies when purchasing a firearm and when the firearm was resold.

There are no restrictions in regards to modifying a C$R firearm.

As for the OP, he has contradicted his desires and how those desires would be implemented at least a half a dozen times.

I've always held the view of do what you want to your own gun, but the OP came on here with the intention of getting other member's ass hairs in a knot.

The title of the OP's thread clearly points that out.

 

[somd_mustangs]

There's no restrictions, but once it's modified it's no longer C$R eligible, that was the only point.
<edit> and have to be careful not to modify it into a banned configuration...