Wayne LaPierre on "Meet The Press" this morning

[Haides]

+1

You realize we're completely at the mercy of people who are hostile to us, right? Sorry guys it's math. 2A leadership will need to be more strategic than "NO". There will be time for legal battles but we need "breathing room" as noted above.

In Maryland (not nationally) we should lay down something that is tolerable (10 round max sales/transfers), let them declare victory and live to politically fight another day. Or you can roll the dice on losing the farm like our brothers in NJ.

Hardly. Luckily for us, in matters of differing opinions, the guy with the gun wins.

 

[MDMOUNTAINEER]

+1

You realize we're completely at the mercy of people who are hostile to us, right? Sorry guys it's math. 2A leadership will need to be more strategic than "NO". There will be time for legal battles but we need "breathing room" as noted above.

In Maryland (not nationally) we should lay down something that is tolerable (10 round max sales/transfers), let them declare victory and live to politically fight another day. Or you can roll the dice on losing the farm like our brothers in NJ.

Umm, no!

 

[Docster]

We need another dozen pro-gun-rights media surrogates to support Wayne LaPierre's efforts. Call in reinforcements. LaPierre is good but we are outnumbered and fighting the liberal media machine.

And one of the reasons we're outnumbered and may have to consider some concessions is because gun owners sat on their butts during the last election and continue to stay unengaged. Too busy buying guns apparently. How many on this forum alone voted for Obama? How many will state their case here over and over again but not to their elected officials or even friends, family or co-workers in a cogent, intelligent manner.

 

[MDFF2008]

And one of the reasons we're outnumbered and may have to consider some concessions is because gun owners sat on their butts during the last election and continue to stay unengaged. Too busy buying guns apparently. How many on this forum alone voted for Obama? How many will state their case here over and over again but not to their elected officials or even friends, family or co-workers in a cogent, intelligent manner.

How many will come to Annapolis?

 

[one-star]

And one of the reasons we're outnumbered and may have to consider some concessions is because gun owners sat on their butts during the last election and continue to stay unengaged. Too busy buying guns apparently. How many on this forum alone voted for Obama? How many will state their case here over and over again but not to their elected officials or even friends, family or co-workers in a cogent, intelligent manner.

How many of us are not single issue voters? If you look at the poll data I posted earlier, something like 40% of gun owners are Democrats (think blue collar union etc). The more that gun ownership is associated with a single political party (or a subset of that party) the more likely you are to lose. Regan like big tent politics, he won elections. Clinton liked big tent politics, he won elections. If we sit around "purging" our ranks of everyone who has a hesitation with the NRA line, you're going to have very few supporters left.

 

[oldman12]

How many will come to Annapolis?

I would love to go, always have, but a 6 day schedule and your GM thinks everyone should be at work even on your day off, I barely have enough time to see my wife and kids. Retail I guess its the way it is. I have sent every email and Tea party fax blast I have been able to. The reason whe,re out numbered is ,well this state is full of Socialist's, call em what you will "Democrat", "Left", "Liberal" = Socilaist .

Anyone who voted for Hussein is either brain damaged or a Communist, His first four years made it clear what America is going to be with this filth we have in power.

Gprimr1 this is not directed at you , but I have always wanted to sit in at Annapolis.

 

[MDFF2008]

I would love to go, always have, but a 6 day schedule and your GM thinks everyone should be at work even on your day off, I barely have enough time to see my wife and kids. Retail I guess its the way it is. I have sent every email and Tea party fax blast I have been able to. The reason whe,re out numbered is ,well this state is full of Socialist's, call em what you will "Democrat", "Left", "Liberal" = Socilaist .

Anyone who voted for Hussein is either brain damaged or a Communist, His first four years made it clear what America is going to be with this filth we have in power.

Gprimr1 this is not directed at you , but I have always wanted to sit in at Annapolis.

The sad thing is that for 1 of you with a real reason, there are prob 10 who just don't' care.

 

[teratos]

I would love to go, always have, but a 6 day schedule and your GM thinks everyone should be at work even on your day off, I barely have enough time to see my wife and kids. Retail I guess its the way it is. I have sent every email and Tea party fax blast I have been able to. The reason whe,re out numbered is ,well this state is full of Socialist's, call em what you will "Democrat", "Left", "Liberal" = Socilaist .

Anyone who voted for Hussein is either brain damaged or a Communist, His first four years made it clear what America is going to be with this filth we have in power.

Gprimr1 this is not directed at you , but I have always wanted to sit in at Annapolis.

Keep writing. It helps

 

[sykesville]

Lindsay Graham for governor (of MD)!

 

[jpk1md]

Check out this poll data....you are not alone
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...gun-owners-vs-the-nra-what-the-polling-shows/

Hate to break it to you but we're not talking about a poll from Gallop....we're talking about a poll from a company called yougov

Wanna venture a guess at their methodology? Do a google search and you'll find out.

Its dubious at best

The poll is crap

 

[alucard0822]

At this point the lines are being drawn, any concession guarantees we will lose ground, not conceding pretty much draws the line at current law, trying to gain ground with an expanded training program, getting rid of parts of the GFSZA or so on moves the line in our favor. Once the bills come, and the debate arrives, then it becomes a tug of war between our reps, voters, and organized advocacy where someone has to get a bill through government to move the line, which will be very difficult with the current makeup of congress. There is also momentum to consider, when a bill gets to a comittee or debated, current law and court cases weigh in, with the recent gains in SCOTUS, passing of castle doctrine laws and other pro self defense laws the momentum is on our side.

There is a reason most bill concessions and negotiations are done behind closed doors, conceding an argument to the other side publicly validates their position, strengthens their support, and gives them momentum, all which will cost you credibility and leverage, when private, both sides can come to an agreement based on likely support of a bill, what it can pass with, and what will kill it, all without losing the perception of strength, and all the problems that come along with public concession. The NRA has a hand in the closed door negotiations, few other groups do, this can lessen the damage of a bill that has a good chance at passing(like the 94AWB sunset). With gun control, any concessions we give are gladly accepted by the other side, then they are emboldened to ask for more, it doesn't make us "safe", doesn't make us "strong" it weakens us, and makes us vulnerable, anyone that has sat in at the hearings in DC and Annapolis with me or the other few people that regularly attend know this is grass roots lobbying 101. For the best outcome we need as many opponents of gun control as possible to be as vocal as possible, someone saying they are "ok with concessions to gun control" puts a mark in the "supporter" colum for reps gauging interest in an AWB. The more people flat out opposing it, the more politically risky it is to support any gun control bill, and the less likely they will spend much effort supporting it.

Those that think concessions will help us either do not understand lobbying, have no experience with us in Annapolis or DC, or are actively supporting gun control groups in an effort to subvert MDshoters and it's support of gun rights.

 

[one-star]

Hate to break it to you but we're not talking about a poll from Gallop....we're talking about a poll from a company called yougov

Wanna venture a guess at their methodology? Do a google search and you'll find out.

Its dubious at best

The poll is crap

You're right I didnt find the methodology so Ill have to dig on that

This is the same Gallup that had Romney winning by 6 points right?

 

[BenL]

Yes. Graham did well. LaPierre barely held his own, if that. The fleck of foam on his mouth will be what everyone focuses on. Stand by for late-night comedy.

To be honest--and some will dislike this--we're at a point where we need to make some small concessions. Let the government license someone to buy, starting now, 20+ round magazines and drums. Go ahead and require fingerprints, etc., like they do for full auto weapons. Just don't make the process take seven months and cost hundreds of dollars. Charge a $30 fee for a three year license, and be done with it. The momentum of the gun-ignorant majority of Americans is changing, and we need to show that we want to control the problem, too. We all know that it's not going to work, but we're in the minority, and it's getting to be out of our hands. We can give a little, or lose a lot, and this would allow us to jump through a hoop and still be able to buy what we want.

Not me; not one. I will not give one inch or concede anything.

 

[peafarmer]

I think the NRA could freshen its message and add value to this "discussion" without offering to water down any 2A rights. I have heard talk about armed guards, but the most effective way to prevent this kind of thing is with physical security...technology that doesn't earn a monthly paycheck. I work at a place near Fort Meade where there is no way that this could happen. Simply adding an additional physical barrier at schools would make this sort of attack exponentially more difficult. If the NRA offered funds to install barriers and technology at some schools it would give them some good press. Does the NRA listen to its members? I would be happy to volunteer my time in such an effort.

I'm sure that there are many more "out of the box" ideas that could be offered. This is the kind of thing the NRA needs to be doing to promote some good will.

 

[md123]

At this point the lines are being drawn, any concession guarantees we will lose ground, not conceding pretty much draws the line at current law, trying to gain ground with an expanded training program, getting rid of parts of the GFSZA or so on moves the line in our favor. Once the bills come, and the debate arrives, then it becomes a tug of war between our reps, voters, and organized advocacy where someone has to get a bill through government to move the line, which will be very difficult with the current makeup of congress. There is also momentum to consider, when a bill gets to a comittee or debated, current law and court cases weigh in, with the recent gains in SCOTUS, passing of castle doctrine laws and other pro self defense laws the momentum is on our side.

There is a reason most bill concessions and negotiations are done behind closed doors, conceding an argument to the other side publicly validates their position, strengthens their support, and gives them momentum, all which will cost you credibility and leverage, when private, both sides can come to an agreement based on likely support of a bill, what it can pass with, and what will kill it, all without losing the perception of strength, and all the problems that come along with public concession. The NRA has a hand in the closed door negotiations, few other groups do, this can lessen the damage of a bill that has a good chance at passing(like the 94AWB sunset). With gun control, any concessions we give are gladly accepted by the other side, then they are emboldened to ask for more, it doesn't make us "safe", doesn't make us "strong" it weakens us, and makes us vulnerable, anyone that has sat in at the hearings in DC and Annapolis with me or the other few people that regularly attend know this is grass roots lobbying 101. For the best outcome we need as many opponents of gun control as possible to be as vocal as possible, someone saying they are "ok with concessions to gun control" puts a mark in the "supporter" colum for reps gauging interest in an AWB. The more people flat out opposing it, the more politically risky it is to support any gun control bill, and the less likely they will spend much effort supporting it.

Those that think concessions will help us either do not understand lobbying, have no experience with us in Annapolis or DC, or are actively supporting gun control groups in an effort to subvert MDshoters and it's support of gun rights.

I figured the negotiations would occur behind closed doors and in a strategic fashion. Others you loosely refer to probably did as well.

But ultimately, we are working from a very weak position and in Maryland our approach will probably need to be different this year.

 

[sykesville]

I think the NRA could freshen its message and add value to this "discussion" without offering to water down any 2A rights. I have heard talk about armed guards, but the most effective way to prevent this kind of thing is with physical security...technology that doesn't earn a monthly paycheck. I work at a place near Fort Meade where there is no way that this could happen. Simply adding an additional physical barrier at schools would make this sort of attack exponentially more difficult. If the NRA offered funds to install barriers and technology at some schools it would give them some good press. Does the NRA listen to its members? I would be happy to volunteer my time in such an effort.

I'm sure that there are many more "out of the box" ideas that could be offered. This is the kind of thing the NRA needs to be doing to promote some good will.

The NRA is funding the design of physical security programs for schools, which will likely be applicable to other establishments, with armed guards optional. There is no way they should be paying for the implementation of such, as if it was their fault it's needed.

 

[peafarmer]

It is awesome that the NRA is funding this. I did a quick search, and didn't find any news of this, so I don't think the NRA is getting credit for thisl

 

[Silverlode]

I note that you live in Maryland, so you are already making concessions. If you truly believed in what you are saying, as strongly as you claim to believe it, wouldn't you have moved to a state that has far less restrictive gun laws?

You aren't even prepared to move out of MD as it is.

.

You have no idea who I am, what I do or what I concede. I tend to pay no attention to unconstitutional laws regardless of where I am. Take from that statement whatever meaning you would like.

Don't put me into that camp just because I'm looking at this objectively and trying to explain what we're up against. I'm on your side, even though I don't agree with your approach.

You put yourself in their camp. There is a fence. I am on one side of it, you are on the side with the antis. Make whatever excuses and employ whatever moral relativism you would like to defend your stance. You are on the wrong side of it. I understand your argument and it is a foolhardy one. I sincerely hope you reconsider it. If we have finally gotten to a point where bullets need to fly to sort things out then so be it. Better now than when all of our "assault weapons" have already been confiscated.

 

[MDFF2008]

It is awesome that the NRA is funding this. I did a quick search, and didn't find any news of this, so I don't think the NRA is getting credit for thisl

Yeah, the media has made up their own narrative about this story.

They are even ignoring the fact that Clinton proposed the same thing in 2000.

 

[Silverlode]

...conceding an argument to the other side publicly validates their position, strengthens their support, and gives them momentum, all which will cost you credibility and leverage...

Those that think concessions will help us either do not understand lobbying, have no experience with us in Annapolis or DC, or are actively supporting gun control groups in an effort to subvert MDshoters and it's support of gun rights.

Exactly right. And ultimately, passing a law and enforcing it are two very different animals, which the antis would learn if they took a giant step forward. But they keep taking baby steps and fools continue to concede. Those fools are like the frog in pot of water coming to a slow boil.