Vepr Legal Question

[DavidMS]

I am not sure if it belongs here or under Rifles.

I have a Vepr 7.62x54r and want to buy the aftermarket 10 round magazines. Unfortunately, I understand that 11 cartridges can fit but not feed.

See here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=624954

Are they legal in Maryland or do I need to buy them in VA? What is the legal standard for a 10 round magazine? I believe its safest to buy in VA.

 

[bobthefisher]

I have two of those ten rounds magazines and they for sure can only fit ten rounds, as even the tenth round is a little tough. Maybe those guys have loose springs. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Tac]

I am not sure if it belongs here or under Rifles.

I have a Vepr 7.62x54r and want to buy the aftermarket 10 round magazines. Unfortunately, I understand that 11 cartridges can fit but not feed.

See here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=624954

Are they legal in Maryland or do I need to buy them in VA? What is the legal standard for a 10 round magazine? I believe its safest to buy in VA.

AFAIK whether you can or cannot purchase in MD, you can certainly buy in VA and bring into MD. Perhaps someone with more legal knowledge than me can weigh in though

 

[JettaRed]

What are they advertised as? 10 or 11?

Now, wasn't that easy?


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[smdub]

What are they advertised as? 10 or 11?

Now, wasn't that easy?

Doesn't matter what its advertised as. It matters what it holds. People have been busted for buying/selling illegal marked mags. Didn't the frederick show (last year?) have a sting where some vendors were selling 30rd mags marked as 20s.

 

[JettaRed]

Doesn't matter what its advertised as. It matters what it holds. People have been busted for buying/selling illegal marked mags. Didn't the frederick show (last year?) have a sting where some vendors were selling 30rd mags marked as 20s.

I really think there is a big difference between the advertised specifications of a commercial product by an established manufacturer and the "custom re-packaging" of a product with the intent to circumvent the law.

As a consumer, I am not the designer, engineer, or manufacturer of a product, so I rely on the advertised and published specifications of the products I buy and trust the manufacturer to be honest.

So if I buy a 10-round magazine and it is marked so, it doesn't matter if someone else can cram an extra round into it.


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[vgplayer]

Doesn't matter what its advertised as. It matters what it holds. People have been busted for buying/selling illegal marked mags. Didn't the frederick show (last year?) have a sting where some vendors were selling 30rd mags marked as 20s.

Alittle different because they were selling a magazine that was originally designed to hold 30 rounds and was not modified to hold 20 rounds.

 

[smdub]

So if I buy a 10-round magazine and it is marked so, it doesn't matter if someone else can cram an extra round into it.

So if magpul/tapco/etc just labeled their mags as 10 rounders (they are an established manufacturer) then they'd be legal to sell CA/MD/etc? Hmm, interesting! The law states capacity. Not advertised capacity. CA can't buy the vepr 10 round mags because they are known to hold 11. The SGM mags are well known for holding an extra.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=624954

Maybe we can get colt to just label a M16 as an AR15 HBAR

 

[JettaRed]

So if magpul/tapco/etc just labeled their mags as 10 rounders (they are an established manufacturer) then they'd be legal to sell CA/MD/etc? Hmm, interesting! The law states capacity. Not advertised capacity. CA can't buy the vepr 10 round mags because they are known to hold 11. The SGM mags are well known for holding an extra.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=624954

Maybe we can get colt to just label a M16 as an AR15 HBAR

Look, I'm not a lawyer. There may be California case law that addresses their problem. This is Maryland and California law doesn't apply. I suggest you contact a lawyer.

As far as what reputable manufacturers label their products as, they would have serious problems if they intentionally mislabeled their products to circumvent the law. I highly doubt they would do that. Still, as a consumer, my defense is that I made the purchase in good faith that the product I was buying was legal. The courts would have to show that I intended to break the law.

 

[NateIU10]

(b) Prohibited.- A person may not manufacture, sell, offer for sale, purchase, receive, or transfer a detachable magazine that has a capacity of more than 10 rounds of ammunition for a firearm.

Capacity is what matters, not what they are marked/marketed as. Magpul wouldn't ship me a replacement PMAG 20 because they can hold 21.

 

[JettaRed]

CA can't buy the vepr 10 round mags because they are known to hold 11. The SGM mags are well known for holding an extra.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=624954

Sorry, I missed the posting on calguns that discussed the mags being illegal or someone getting into trouble for them.

As a matter of fact, all the posters appeared to have bought, owned, or were going to buy.

 

[bobthefisher]

I really think there is a big difference between the advertised specifications of a commercial product by an established manufacturer and the "custom re-packaging" of a product with the intent to circumvent the law.

As a consumer, I am not the designer, engineer, or manufacturer of a product, so I rely on the advertised and published specifications of the products I buy and trust the manufacturer to be honest.

So if I buy a 10-round magazine and it is marked so, it doesn't matter if someone else can cram an extra round into it.


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Agreed. I have these magazines in question, and you would really have to cram the sh!t out of it to get the 11th round in, plus like you said, it probably will have FTF issues. Hell any magazine, if you cut or take the spring out, will hold more then the advertised capacity. In my opinion you're really splitting hairs here. I've also never had any issues ordering 20rnd PMAGs from magpul before the ban.

 

[smdub]

Bayou Tactical wouldn't ship PMAG 20s to me either. Said:

"I really hate to have to inform you that we have to cancel your order. I know that the Maryland law currently does not ban 20 round magazines. I've had this conversation with my Magpul distributor more often than I'd like. Magpul lists Maryland as a "cannot ship to" state for their 20 round .308 magazines and 20 round .223 magazines. Therefore, as a Magpul dealer...I also cannot ship to states that Magpul (itself) doesn't ship to. "

LUCKILY, they contacted me before cancelling the order and I diverted them to another state. This was earlier this year when they were nigh impossible to find for <$50 and they sold them to me for msrp. So if you had PMAG 20s shipped to MD, the dealer was both breaking their magpul contract and MD law.

Hell any magazine, if you cut or take the spring out, will hold more then the advertised capacity.

yeah, and if I cut and weld two of them together I can get 2x the capacity. Same if you drill the rivets out of a pinned mag. Modifications YOU make to the mag aren't controlled by the manufacturer. (and are legal as long as you do them outside of MD)

 

[stupid]

are the .308 and 7.62x54R VEPRs banned? how interchangeable are the parts?

 

[Ganegrei]

are the .308 and 7.62x54R VEPRs banned? how interchangeable are the parts?

Ak variant. Banned.

I think there is an old AG letter that declared purpose built "sporter" models of banned guns were not banned but good luck finding a dealer to take that risk.

 

[DavidMS]

The problem is finding someone in VA who stocks the VEPR magazines. I will probably have a friend order then and buy them from the friend in VA just to be safe for the first ones. Then I can check to confirm that the 11th round won't fit...

I just don't want to be the test case.

Thank you.