US Army Adopting 6.8?

[U.S.SFC_RET]

You can't do anything with the rifle other than use it as a club when you run out of ammo. You can fix bayonets but that is still just a club with a sharp point.

What can you do? You have 50+ years of training and use of 210 rounds. Dropping down to 140 rounds means that you have 1/3 fewer rounds.

Spray and pray is not a good firing discipline. I think that there was one million rounds expended for every Viet Cong soldier killed. That is not a good ratio by anyone's standard. IMO the military has been moving away from that. We are light years past the Vietnam war in advancement. Just the sights on a military issue rifle were non existent then and much more can be achieved. So times have changed and the U.S. Military wanted something more than a 5.56 with good reason.
The more distance that you can keep yourself/unit from the enemy when you engage them the better off you will be. If the Russians have to close in to destroy a U.S. unit then the advantage will be ours. My vote is the 6.8.

 

[ezracer]

XM5 (now XM7 ?) combat load is 7-20 rounders = 9 lbs. 3 oz. vs. M4 combat load 7-30 rounders = 7 lbs. 6 oz.

Apparently the Army expects the NGSW weapons and optics system to allow soldiers to eliminate their targets at longer ranges with fewer rounds. The 6.8 CC (Common Cartridge) has a clear performance advantage over the 5,56. That's undeniable. Time will tell.

 

[Michigander08]

Spray and pray is not a good firing discipline. I think that there was one million rounds expended for every Viet Cong soldier killed. That is not a good ratio by anyone's standard. IMO the military has been moving away from that. We are light years past the Vietnam war in advancement. Just the sights on a military issue rifle were non existent then and much more can be achieved. So times have changed and the U.S. Military wanted something more than a 5.56 with good reason.
The more distance that you can keep yourself/unit from the enemy when you engage them the better off you will be. If the Russians have to close in to destroy a U.S. unit then the advantage will be ours. My vote is the 6.8.

You kept forgetting the typical distance for engagement between grunts. That distance is being pushed away farther than the rifle's range.

 

[Michigander08]

How far a tank round can travel and how far the M982 Excalibur round can travel? It isn't the war of 1812 where we just line up people.

 

[ezracer]

I think this is starting to resemble the .40 vs .45 threads or the 9mm vs. .38 threads or the, or, or.
In the end, the battlefield has the real answer.

 

[Michigander08]

I think this is starting to resemble the .40 vs .45 threads or the 9mm vs. .38 threads or the, or, or.
In the end, the battlefield has the real answer.

You already have the answer: stay at 556.

 

[normbal]

But isn’t that 6.8 round a CIVILIAN cartridge?

How will F-troop ever ban it now?

 

[ezracer]

But isn’t that 6.8 round a CIVILIAN cartridge?

How will F-troop ever ban it now?

The 6.8 CC ammo for the new Army XM7 and XM250 is different from the 6.8 SPC. I believe lengths are different and the 6.8 CC has a 30% higher operating pressure, thus the higher velocity with a heavier bullet. (135 gr. typically)

The new 6.8 CC is a hybrid in that the shell casing is made of Stainless Steel and Brass thus allowing higher pressures.

I found this to be interesting:
6.8x51 135gr. velocity 2950 Muzzle Energy 2609ft/lbs. Operating Pressure 80.000psi

Versus

7.62x54mmR 145gr. velocity 2717 Muzzle Energy 2377ft/lbs. Operating Pressure 56,565psi

 

[normbal]

The 6.8 CC ammo for the new Army XM7 and XM250 is different from the 6.8 SPC. I believe lengths are different and the 6.8 CC has a 30% higher operating pressure, thus the higher velocity with a heavier bullet. (135 gr. typically)

The new 6.8 CC is a hybrid in that the shell casing is made of Stainless Steel and Brass thus allowing higher pressures.

I found this to be interesting:
6.8x51 135gr. velocity 2950 Muzzle Energy 2609ft/lbs. Operating Pressure 80.000psi

Versus

7.62x54mmR 145gr. velocity 2717 Muzzle Energy 2377ft/lbs. Operating Pressure 56,565psi

Thanks. So two different rounds then.

But it’s still all about the shot placement.

 

[hdatontodo]

Will we be able to argue that the AR-15 is not like the fielded military weapon?

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using Tapatalk

 

[ezracer]

The new platform also has a new fire control system....the XM157. NOT made by EOTECH but by Vortex. At it's heart is a 1-8 LPVO that can operate without battery power. The system provides info such as ballistic drop, & wind holds. Also Laser rangefinder and computes temperature, elevation, inclination and declination.

The system has passed all mil-spec tests on temperature, water immersion, dust, drops, shock, etc. It's rugged. Made entirely in America. All platforms including 'legacy' platforms will use this system.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

You kept forgetting the typical distance for engagement between grunts. That distance is being pushed away farther than the rifle's range.

You have a leg to stand on.
I was never a grunt but a mechanic. Typically we would engage targets out to 300 meters as a lot of you would know. The furthest target that I ever hit was a 500 meters with an M16A1 and M16A2 and back then it was iron sights and that was roughly 25% of the time. If I can do that 25% of the time back then with iron sights how far can we expect the maximum point target range to be?

 

[Sirex]

Couldn't they have just converted M4s to 6.5G, and 7.62N rifles to 6.5C saved money, and maybe have a wide variety of 6.5 bullets for both cases? 6.5G could use standard STANAG mags, with a different follower, and Serbia already produces it in quantities, and the US could as well.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Defense spending is big business.

 

[smokey]

The not-really Next Generation Weapons Program

The author disputes the reliability of the Army's newest rifle and light machine gun.

www.militarytimes.com

"On all key technical measures, the Next Generation Squad Weapons program is imploding before Army’s very eyes. The program is on mechanical life support, with its progenitors at the Joint Chiefs obstinately now ramming the program through despite spectacularly failing multiple civilian-sector peer reviews almost immediately upon commercial release."

 

[TheBert]

The not-really Next Generation Weapons Program

The author disputes the reliability of the Army's newest rifle and light machine gun.

www.militarytimes.com

"On all key technical measures, the Next Generation Squad Weapons program is imploding before Army’s very eyes. The program is on mechanical life support, with its progenitors at the Joint Chiefs obstinately now ramming the program through despite spectacularly failing multiple civilian-sector peer reviews almost immediately upon commercial release."

"The fundamental problem with the program is there remains not enough tungsten available from China, as Army knows, to make the goal of making every round armor piercing even remotely feasible. The plan also assumes that the world’s by far largest supplier will have zero problems selling tungsten to America only for it to be shot back at its troops during World War III."

"Unfortunately, like so many other antecedent programs Army has lost the war again, badly. In terms of weight, recoil, durability and ballistics, expectations vs reality are crashing down on Army right now, hard."

I am still waiting for someone to tell me what problems the XM-5/M-5/6.8 actually resolves. It appears that this new rifles has more problems than solutions.