US Army Adopting 6.8?

[John from MD]

When you are young and dumb, you don't notice the weight as much. I'm sure there are a lot of older, new CCW holders who are starting to get back pains just from carrying a sidearm and one mag pouch.

Maybe that is why the small 9mm market has taken off like it has.

 

[Worsley]

When you are young and dumb, you don't notice the weight as much. I'm sure there are a lot of older, new CCW holders who are starting to get back pains just from carrying a sidearm and one mag pouch.

Maybe that is why the small 9mm market has taken off like it has.

Yup - that’s why I like my 43X, light, lethal, compact, easy to shoot, easy to handle, no accidental discharges and it’s a Glock.

 

[River02]

But what will it be for 6.8 which will be heavier?

John
To me it was a pain to haul around 210 rounds, a weapon, gas mask, Load Bearing Equipment and Kevlar as a bare minimum. That plus the BDUs and boots that put me over 70 lbs.
If you would ask me what the basic load for the 6.8 would be I would have to guess 160 rounds if the 6.8 firing platform had 20 round magazines. If there were to be 30 round magazines then the basic load would probably be close to the same at 210 for seven magazines. Three magazines per ammo pouch at two ammo pouches.
If there were two magazines of 30 rounds each per pouch at two pouches that would be 120 plus the 30 rounder in the weapon so that basic load would be 150.

The present soldier basic load of ammunition is.
M4 5.56mm
30 round magazines @ 7 total
2 ammo pouches with 6 magazines @180 + 30 in the weapon = 210.

Soldier basic load for the 6.8mm
XM5 6.8mm
20 round magazines @ 7 total
2 ammo pouches total of 6 magazines+1 in the weapon = 140This book was mandatory reading for me and every officer/NCO E-6 and above in my Infantry BN in 1993-- It was also among the recommended/required reading list of every military professional education class I ever attended. Great read and analysis of how an individuals soldiers load impacts combat effectiveness on the battlefield. The soldier's load and the mobility of a nation

When you are young and dumb, you don't notice the weight as much. I'm sure there are a lot of older, new CCW holders who are starting to get back pains just from carrying a sidearm and one mag pouch.

Maybe that is why the small 9mm market has taken off like it has.

Gents-- just in case you've never read it--- this book covers the topic of the individual soldiers load out and it's impact on combat/logistics --- great read and recommended/required read for many officers/NCOs in their respective PME courses.

The soldier's load and the mobility of a nation​

 

[Brent]

But what will it be for 6.8 which will be heavier?

Aren’t they claiming weight saving using polymer cases instead of brass? Supposedly saves on powder charge, too.


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[John from MD]

Gents-- just in case you've never read it--- this book covers the topic of the individual soldiers load out and it's impact on combat/logistics --- great read and recommended/required read for many officers/NCOs in their respective PME courses.

The soldier's load and the mobility of a nation​

At my age, the only action I be in is a rear guard when the balloon goes up.

 

[River02]

At my age, the only action I be in is a rear guard when the balloon goes up.

Drones John--- we can fly drones (of course they have to catheterize us first so we're not constantly losing situational awareness making trips to the latrine--)

 

[TheBert]

John
To me it was a pain to haul around 210 rounds, a weapon, gas mask, Load Bearing Equipment and Kevlar as a bare minimum. That plus the BDUs and boots that put me over 70 lbs.
If you would ask me what the basic load for the 6.8 would be I would have to guess 160 rounds if the 6.8 firing platform had 20 round magazines. If there were to be 30 round magazines then the basic load would probably be close to the same at 210 for seven magazines. Three magazines per ammo pouch at two ammo pouches.
If there were two magazines of 30 rounds each per pouch at two pouches that would be 120 plus the 30 rounder in the weapon so that basic load would be 150.

The present soldier basic load of ammunition is.
M4 5.56mm
30 round magazines @ 7 total
2 ammo pouches with 6 magazines @180 + 30 in the weapon = 210.

Soldier basic load for the 6.8mm
XM5 6.8mm
20 round magazines @ 7 total
2 ammo pouches total of 6 magazines+1 in the weapon = 140

I don't believe that fire discipline or accuracy will be increased with the 6.8. Why would you go out with less rounds?

 

[MattFinals718]

Jeff Gurwitch (retired U.S. Army SF) recently put up his take on why NGSW (XM5/XM7/whatever) and its cartridge were flawed concepts from the get-go:



I recommend watching.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

I don't believe that fire discipline or accuracy will be increased with the 6.8. Why would you go out with less rounds?

Because you can do much more with this round vs 5.56.

 

[U.S.SFC_RET]

Gents-- just in case you've never read it--- this book covers the topic of the individual soldiers load out and it's impact on combat/logistics --- great read and recommended/required read for many officers/NCOs in their respective PME courses.

The soldier's load and the mobility of a nation​

I retired from the Army some time ago and don't have a need for the book. However if you feel like you need to stay informed then its probably a good read.

 

[h2u]

All the shooting is done in the first 50 seconds. Then an in-depth overview of the platform.

 

[TheBert]

Because you can do much more with this round vs 5.56.

You can't do anything with the rifle other than use it as a club when you run out of ammo. You can fix bayonets but that is still just a club with a sharp point.

What can you do? You have 50+ years of training and use of 210 rounds. Dropping down to 140 rounds means that you have 1/3 fewer rounds.

 

[calicojack]

I was in the Army from 82 to 92 and all I ever heard was how inadequate the 5.56 round is against the Warsaw Pact hard hitting 7.63x39. Now that we have a round with some punch, y’all hate it.

 

[John from MD]

I was in the Army from 82 to 92 and all I ever heard was how inadequate the 5.56 round is against the Warsaw Pact hard hitting 7.63x39. Now that we have a round with some punch, y’all hate it.

That was coming from people who never had to use the 7.62x39 outside of spitting distance.

 

[ezracer]

All you poo-poo-ers can poo-poo all you want. I want one for each hand!!

 

[Crxflippr]

Drones John--- we can fly drones (of course they have to catheterize us first so we're not constantly losing situational awareness making trips to the latrine--)

You'll need those latrine breaks to maintain sanity. Staring at the same spot on the ground for hours on end, going round and round and round, can be mind numbing.

 

[Michigander08]

There is no need for new round with regular units. Let the special operation guys play with their toys. Don't people get it? Mortar, artillery, tank, and air support are what important to the infantries. Those are what kill most of the enemies.

 

[TheBert]

All you poo-poo-ers can poo-poo all you want. I want one for each hand!!

Seriously, what can an 6.8 do vs. an 5.56? Nobody has said why the 6.8 is better overall and with all things considered. Just saying it is better and can do more without providing why it is better and what more it can do it just somebody going along to get along.

 

[ezracer]

So basically the U.S. Army wants to move towards longer range, harder hitting small arms. More killing power at longer ranges. The effective range of the 5.56 is close to the Russian 5.45x39 and the Chinese 5.8mm cartridge (500 meters). The Army wants to extend that range to ~800 meters min. and beyond.

Also, more and more frequently, the "bad guys" are now wearing body armor. The Army claims that the new chambering is superior to the 6.5 Creedmoor and the 7.62 NATO at ranges up to 800 meters and that it can defeat Level III body armor with non-armor-piercing ammunition out to 600 yards.

For comparison, the "NEW" 6.8 XM5 combat load will be 7 - 20 rnd. magazines. The M4 combat load is 7 - 30 round magazines. Yes, fewer 6.8 rnds and also heavier. SIG also developed a hybrid metal case for the cartridge. Their design uses a SS case head married to a brass case body. Somehow, this produces an extra 350 fps over a traditional brass case, probably because of increased pressure. In addition to it's strength, steel is lighter than brass so one round of the new ammo weighs less than a 7.62 NATO cartridge. The operating pressure of this cartridge is 30% higher than a 7.62 NATO or 6.5 Creedmoor. About 80,000 psi.

Other branches of the U.S Military may adopt this cartridge also. The above info/stats are from the Feb. '23 "American Rifleman Magazine". Check it out.

 

[ezracer]

I am willing to bet you that the 6.8 round has the ability to punch through Russian body armor well past 600 meters.

You're right !!